Is it just me, or are Djinn insanely overpowered?

[giygas]

I mean, come on. It's basically a mummy, but better. The essence system is not bad at all (though the double MP cost is stupid), and hellfire resistance is just overpowered, any which way you look at it. rC- isn't any kind of a problem; i rarely see it anyway.

Who would honestly want to play a mummy now? I took 30 tries before I won a MuWz, and I won a DjFE on my second try . I'm working now on a DjSu... but seriously, this needs to be rebalanced.

On a side note, are Djinn Undead? It would be kind of stupid if they could cast DD.

[pratamawirya]

Djinn should be demonic, not undead. And giving them rC-- (not just rC-) would be appropriate, I think.

[reaver]

It's not just you. You're actually sort of late to the party- It's common knowledge Djinn are totally broken. Somebody did a Dj speed run in under 15k turns, IIRC. Special cases for Crystal ball of energy, staff of Wucad Mu, and Elyvilon have already been enacted. The Djinn thread on Game Design Discussion discussed possible nerfs for a bit, but discussion on nerfing them seems to have died down. Djinn have been specifically stated to not be undead, and there has been resistance to anything which would cause them to be unable to worship the good gods. Right now Death's Door is disabled, but DracoOmega said it would eventually be re-enabled, although you would still lose the EP cost for spells. (I had an IRC discussion with him where I pointed out this is how DD interacts with Makhleb invocations. He agreed this was good.)

Actually, the general opinion is that the most broken thing about Djinn is no hunger channeling/healing. Getting the advantages of both HP and MP for no real cost is totally busted. Hellfire resistance has been noted for being good in Gehenna, though.

Originally, Djinn had rC--, but it was so confusing and unintuitive the devs changed it to rC-, despite this buffing an already Overpowered species.

[giygas]

You're actually sort of late to the party

That figures. The person with the Debian daily builds needs to get their act together, or cron job everything. When I realized that the new species were supposed to be in trunk, I forced myself to compile from source. I hate that though; I like everything to integrate nicely with my package repos.

no hunger channeling/healing

Yeah, this is stupid. I figured this out around halfway through the game; wore two rings of regeneration till the end.

Hellfire resistance has been noted for being good in Gehenna, though.

But it weakens Cerebov and Orbs of Fire. (Although I just went for a three runer on my DjFE, I can picture Cerebov as being as weak as, say, a golden dragon. Tops.

[reaver]

Hellfire resistance has been noted for being good in Gehenna, though.

But it weakens Cerebov and Orbs of Fire. (Although I just went for a three runer on my DjFE, I can picture Cerebov as being as weak as, say, a golden dragon. Tops.

I'm sure that hellfire resistance is helpful against those monsters. What I really mean is that the "no hunger channeling/healing" is so broken nobody has really explored the ways hellfire resistance is useful. I heard one guy mention hellfire resistance in Gehenna on IRC, but other than that I haven't really heard much mention of it. I bet that someone somewhere has written their opinions on it, but I haven't seen it.

[Magipi]

I mean, come on. It's basically a mummy, but better.

If it is better than a mummy, it is not necessarily overpowered or even strong

[giygas]

I mean, come on. It's basically a mummy, but better.

If it is better than a mummy, it is not necessarily overpowered or even strong

I consider the lack of a hunger cost for mummies to be a major buff, at least for a three runer.

[pratamawirya]

I mean, come on. It's basically a mummy, but good.

There, it's finally fixed.

[joellercoaster]

The person with the Debian daily builds needs to get their act together, or cron job everything. When I realized that the new species were supposed to be in trunk, I forced myself to compile from source. I hate that though; I like everything to integrate nicely with my package repos.

Now is a good time to learn how to use dpkg. It's easier than you think.

(This, from an Arch Linux user )

[khalil]

I consider the lack of a hunger cost for mummies to be a major buff, at least for a three runer.

Doesn't the staff of energy give that? While letting you channel?

[Azrael]

No, the staff still lets you hunger normally, and you can't spam stuff like Sif channeling.

And if you think Djinn are overpowered, try getting a DjWz off of D:1.

[reaver]

And if you think Djinn are overpowered, try getting a DjWz off of D:1.

Like Octopodes, Djinn have a very front loaded difficulty curve. The dev team has acknowledged that shifting some of the early difficulty to later in the game would be the best possible nerf. In addition, Wizard isn't the best class for a Djinn. Fire Elementalist is the best choice in magic, and I rather easily got one to ~D:6 before stupidly splatting in a Bailey, Healer is probably the easiest and most broken if you know how to play one, and Berserker is a rather easy option to help see why they're so strong. I think I'll take your challenge once I splat my current DrTm game.

Doesn't the staff of energy give that? While letting you channel?

Staff of energy lets you ignore spell hunger. Hunger from other sources, like Berserking, Channeling, or just standing around still applies.

[giygas]

And if you think Djinn are overpowered, try getting a DjWz off of D:1.

Tried this. Didn't think it was too difficult. My first one splatted in Lair:2, but my second died in D:3.
I think that this is an unfair analogy, however. This is like saying "If you think Spriggans are overpowered, try getting a SpSk off of D:1. Some combos just don't work early on, even if the aptitudes are there.

[pubby]

But it weakens Cerebov and Orbs of Fire.

Neither has hellfire though... Asmodeus does, and he can summon fiends to do it too.

[pratamawirya]

But it weakens Cerebov and Orbs of Fire.

Neither has hellfire though... Asmodeus does, and he can summon fiends to do it too.

Doesn't "hellfire immunity" mean "total fire immunity", meaning that even firestorm can barely scratch your skin?

[reaver]

Doesn't "hellfire immunity" mean "total fire immunity", meaning that even firestorm can barely scratch your skin?

This is correct. I just used wiz mode to make a djinn with fire storm and max skills. When it cast fire storm right over its head, the EP cost to cast the spell was more then the damage it did (18 vs. 16). They also resist hellfire, which is otherwise completely irresistible.

[giygas]

Doesn't "hellfire immunity" mean "total fire immunity", meaning that even firestorm can barely scratch your skin?

This is correct. I just used wiz mode to make a djinn with fire storm and max skills. When it cast fire storm right over its head, the EP cost to cast the spell was more then the damage it did (18 vs. 16). They also resist hellfire, which is otherwise completely irresistible.

I did this in my DjFE run a little, when it was useful. Wreaks hell on your scrolls though.

[Magipi]

Doesn't "hellfire immunity" mean "total fire immunity", meaning that even firestorm can barely scratch your skin?

This is correct. I just used wiz mode to make a djinn with fire storm and max skills. When it cast fire storm right over its head, the EP cost to cast the spell was more then the damage it did (18 vs. 16).

This is interesting. According to the bots, only 55% of fire storm is resistible, so it should deal much more damage. Is it a bug?

[newideas]

Can Djinnis worship TSO even though they are demonic?

[Bloax]

I don't think they're demonic, and yes

  Code:

_There is a glowing golden altar of the Shining One here.
 You hover solemnly before the altar of the Shining One.
_The Shining One welcomes you!

they can worship TSO.

Though worshipping Kiku for the torment protection isn't too bad either.

[pratamawirya]

I'm running a DjFE of Sif Muna. Man, this is pure fun.

[graffen69]

Since they have no hunger clock they can also swap Vampiricism weapons freely