The new qw topic


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Cocytus Succeeder

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Post Thursday, 27th April 2017, 14:25

The new qw topic

This is about qw, the best Crawl-playing bot, who can win without human interference. (Developed by elliptic).

The previous topic:
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=13608

It looks like our friend has improved since then.
http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/qw.html

116 wins! But most importantly:
  Code:
magipi: !greatrace dd qw
beem: qw is a greatdeepdwarf!


Yes, qw won all DDxx combos. Amazing. The strategy, it seems to be was always to go axe, heavy armour, and Trog or Makhleb. Most reasonable.

He is also close to winning all species:
  Code:
magipi: !greatplayer qw
beem: Unwon species for qw: Deep Elf, Demigod, Felid, Gnoll, Halfling, Kobold, Octopode, Spriggan


Of these, HaBe and KoBe would be easy for him, and probably DgFi or something along those lines. Also might win a gnoll on a good day. The others are trickier.

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Post Thursday, 27th April 2017, 16:09

Re: The new qw topic

Another cool thing it did recently:

  Code:
15097715 qw the Conqueror (level 27, 199/199 HPs)
             Began as a Gargoyle Fighter on Apr 5, 2017.
             Was the Champion of the Shining One.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 15 runes!


Check out the qw repo: https://github.com/elliptic/qw

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Post Friday, 28th April 2017, 18:16

Re: The new qw topic

I thought sub-3 hours was slow for a bot until I realized that was the 15 runer :shock:

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Post Friday, 28th April 2017, 19:00

Re: The new qw topic

bananaken wrote:I thought sub-3 hours was slow for a bot until I realized that was the 15 runer :shock:


Not sure but I think it might also be throttled to reduce CPU load on the servers when it plays online.

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Post Friday, 28th April 2017, 19:59

Re: The new qw topic

advil wrote:
bananaken wrote:I thought sub-3 hours was slow for a bot until I realized that was the 15 runer :shock:


Not sure but I think it might also be throttled to reduce CPU load on the servers when it plays online.


Yes. Without the delay, playing offline (so no lag) his record for a 3-runer is under 2 minutes. There is a link to the morgue in the LearnDB. but unfortunately that link is broken.
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Post Friday, 28th April 2017, 23:02

Re: The new qw topic

Y u mk me feel bad abt myslf
I Feel the Need--the Need for Beer
Spoiler: show
3DSBeTr 15DSFiRu 3DSMoNe 3FoHuGo 3TrArOk 3HOFEVe 3MfGlOk 4GrEEVe 3BaIEChei 3HuMoOka 3MiWnQaz 3VSFiAsh 3DrTmMakh 3DSCKXom 3OgMoOka 3NaFiOka 3FoFiOka 3MuFEVeh 3CeHuOka 3TrMoTSO 3DEFESif 3DSMoOka 3DSFiOka

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Post Wednesday, 31st May 2017, 06:59

Re: The new qw topic

Our hero is doing great in the current tournament.
http://dobrazupa.org/tournament/0.20/players/qw.html

First, ha won a 15-runer (after lots of tries), going the Oka -> TSO route. His extended programme seems to be:
Slime
Swithch to TSO
Crypt
Tomb (wow,I guess most humans leave newtomb for last)
Hell branches, in various order in different runs, I dunno why
Pan
Abyss

The Abyss seems to be the most difficult for him, as he always kills every monster on sight. (He knows how to dive, and does it in hell and also in Pan after getting the demonic rune. But never with a monster in sight).

Okay, so after the big win came another milestone: the first Nemelex's Choice combo win! It was DDAK, going from Lucy to Makhleb at XL 12.

His third win is a NaFi of Oka. Why Na? Why not a berserker? Who knows.

As a result of those failed extended wins, he has a lot of rune points, and as a result he is 18th in individual standings.

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Post Wednesday, 31st May 2017, 07:52

Re: The new qw topic

So, it seems that following chess and go, in next year's tournament AI will be a clear winner in Crawl :)
DCSS: 77: ...SpWz{OgGlTrMo}{CeWnMfBeMiSk}DrEE{GrFiFoGl}DgEnFeNe{OpGlHuSu}DDAr
HaCKSpAEGrTmDgFEDsCjGhMoHuVM{HaAMBaEn}{HuMoHOWn}DsWzDDHu{DgWnGnBe}FeIE
{MiEnMfCj}SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}FeEE{HOIEMiAE}GrGlHuWrGnWr
Bloat: 4: RaRoPrPh{GuStGnCa

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Post Wednesday, 31st May 2017, 22:46

Re: The new qw topic

A simple AI constantly winning at Crawl while I constantly splat makes me feel bad about myself.
Wins: MiFi(6,15), SpEn(11), DDHu(3), GrEE(3)
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Post Wednesday, 31st May 2017, 23:20

Re: The new qw topic

It's the beginning of the end for humanity as we know it.
DCSS: 77: ...SpWz{OgGlTrMo}{CeWnMfBeMiSk}DrEE{GrFiFoGl}DgEnFeNe{OpGlHuSu}DDAr
HaCKSpAEGrTmDgFEDsCjGhMoHuVM{HaAMBaEn}{HuMoHOWn}DsWzDDHu{DgWnGnBe}FeIE
{MiEnMfCj}SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}FeEE{HOIEMiAE}GrGlHuWrGnWr
Bloat: 4: RaRoPrPh{GuStGnCa

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Post Thursday, 1st June 2017, 08:11

Re: The new qw topic

It's 14th now. If it hadn't won 3 NaFi of Oka, it might be even higher. Two extra wins gave points mostly just for runes I believe.
HuBe and TeFi were nice, the latter used +14 obsidian axe.

Update: 13th!
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Post Thursday, 1st June 2017, 11:50

Re: The new qw topic

i wish calculators couldnt do math faster than me :\

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Post Thursday, 1st June 2017, 12:07

Re: The new qw topic

yesno wrote:i wish I could do math faster than calculators do


FTFY :)
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
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Post Thursday, 1st June 2017, 18:58

Re: The new qw topic

Magipi wrote:
advil wrote:
bananaken wrote:I thought sub-3 hours was slow for a bot until I realized that was the 15 runer :shock:


Not sure but I think it might also be throttled to reduce CPU load on the servers when it plays online.


Yes. Without the delay, playing offline (so no lag) his record for a 3-runer is under 2 minutes. There is a link to the morgue in the LearnDB. but unfortunately that link is broken.


What is output to the screen during this time? Is it possible for elliptic to record a full speed run so we can see what crawl looks like when you beat it in two minutes?

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Post Friday, 2nd June 2017, 05:20

Re: The new qw topic

tasonir wrote:What is output to the screen during this time? Is it possible for elliptic to record a full speed run so we can see what crawl looks like when you beat it in two minutes?

My guess is that you could only see the screen flashing wildly.

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Post Friday, 2nd June 2017, 08:49

Re: The new qw topic

I believe it is impossible to achieve this speed in tiles mode.
As about console mode I still don't understand one thing: 3 minutes is 180 seconds, with 50 frames per second we have 9k frames. If game lasts more than 9k turns, we will inevitably have more than 1 turn per frame. How is it achieved? Does console crawl render in one thread and reads key presses in another? I thought it uses a single thread for everything, something like "get input"-"process everything" cycle.
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
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Post Friday, 2nd June 2017, 17:18

Re: The new qw topic

VeryAngryFelid wrote:I believe it is impossible to achieve this speed in tiles mode.
As about console mode I still don't understand one thing: 3 minutes is 180 seconds, with 50 frames per second we have 9k frames. If game lasts more than 9k turns, we will inevitably have more than 1 turn per frame. How is it achieved? Does console crawl render in one thread and reads key presses in another? I thought it uses a single thread for everything, something like "get input"-"process everything" cycle.


You can write far more than 50 screen updates in a second, especially if you are writing to a file or to /dev/null rather than actually having your terminal render it. Console rendering is asynchronous from the program sending the data to the console, so there are not really frames in the NTSC/PAL sense.

In the recording (ttyrec) file, there are frames, but they are also asynchronous: each frame has a timestamp, and those timestamps have microsecond resolution. So theoretically you could have a ttyrec with a million frames per second... but good luck playing that back at full speed.

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Post Friday, 2nd June 2017, 17:36

Re: The new qw topic

Thanks for the explanation, neil, that helps a lot!
I always forget that bots don't look at screen, they just request all they need via API, where it is instantly available, even if the data is not in console yet.
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
Overestimated: AC, GDS
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Post Tuesday, 6th June 2017, 05:41

Re: The new qw topic

Our hero is still holding his place in the top 20. Already 18 wins, including a MiCK that stayed with Xom, very nice!

Some random stuff:
- He had a streak, but unfortunately it is not a streak by the tournament rules, as it should be different species and backgrounds, while this was MiFi - DDFi.
- He had a DD of Ru win. A very strange choice.
- He killed every unique except two. One is Ignacio (who is very rare), the other is Crazy Yiuf, who lives behind a runed door, and qw never opens runed doors.
- He just lost a game in which he was stuck in U:2. I wonder how that happened. http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/qw/mo ... 043213.txt

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Post Tuesday, 6th June 2017, 06:54

Re: The new qw topic

Magipi wrote:- He just lost a game in which he was stuck in U:2. I wonder how that happened. http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/qw/mo ... 043213.txt


I guess the area had just upstairs to return back to U:1 but the bot insisted on going to U:3.
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
Overestimated: AC, GDS
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Post Tuesday, 6th June 2017, 07:40

Re: The new qw topic

That MiCK is amazing, sometimes Xom is very nice.
363 HP :)

  Code:
You reflexively headbutt those who attack you in melee.
You have a pair of horns on your head.
You have large cloven feet.
You are partially covered in rugged brown scales. (AC +1, +3% HP)
You are very clumsy. (Dex -4)
Your body sometimes deteriorates upon taking damage.
Your flesh is heat resistant. (rF+)
You are somewhat resistant to further mutation.
You passively map a small area around you.
Your system is resistant to poisons. (rPois)
You are extremely robust. (+30% HP)
You are covered in fur. (AC +1)
You are resistant to electric shocks. (rElec)
Your muscles are strong. (Str +2)
Your spells are much harder to cast, but much more powerful.
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
Overestimated: AC, GDS
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Slime Squisher

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Post Tuesday, 6th June 2017, 13:36

Re: The new qw topic

393 mhp if you factor in guardian spirit!

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Post Tuesday, 6th June 2017, 19:16

Re: The new qw topic

n1000 wrote:393 mhp if you factor in guardian spirit!

More importantly than the +30 hp (less than a 10% increase) is that it allows you to add his mana regeneration and hp regeneration together into a total 'regeneration' stat. With .7 hp regen and .3 mana regen, that's adding another 43% faster regeneration.

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Post Tuesday, 6th June 2017, 22:23

Re: The new qw topic

I think +30 hp is more significant than +0.3 hp per turn

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Post Monday, 12th June 2017, 05:46

Re: The new qw topic

A great tournament for qw! He finished 23rd, and most notably he had the 3rd most wins (Yermak had 33, Manman 31, qw 25). His tournament strategy is not very refined, hence he finished behind players with far fewer wins. One of the reasons is the qw had a lot of duplicates (7-7 DD and Mi wins, 14 Fi wins, 10 Okawaru wins), resulting in fewer combo points. The other reason was that he had no streak points. Still, an amazing achievement!

Also, we lost a legendary member of the Crawl community yesterday. What a sad day.
From the previous topic about qw:
dynast wrote:The day i lose to a 2 win streak bot i quit crawl.

And this tournament:
23. qw 4153 points
(...)
80. Dynast 2658 points

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Post Tuesday, 13th June 2017, 01:45

Re: The new qw topic

duvessa wrote:I think +30 hp is more significant than +0.3 hp per turn

I don't, but I admit that you're probably giving the more general, correct advice. I generally refuse to press "5" to rest and autoexplore at half health, and try to keep my "not really serious speedruns" (where I still use autoexplore and don't dive that fast until maybe in the late game) to around 50k turns for 3 runes, and around 65k turns for 15. Wins 39 to 87 (roughly speaking my last 50 wins; early wins I was slower) have never had a game go over 100k, except for one game where I specifically built a naga wizard to do mega zigs, and completed 4 ziggs before getting bored and winning.

So again, you're probably right, but I play weird, and in my style, I really value regeneration.

Also the .3 hp/turn might be worth more in extended with torment and no safe upstairs in places like Pan, but extended is a special case and not really the point of the general game.

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Post Tuesday, 13th June 2017, 11:44

Re: The new qw topic

I think we cannot directly compare HP regeneration and MP regeneration here. Spirit shield splits damage proportionally so when you get 50 damage as character with 363 HP and 30 MP, you lose 4 MP and 46 HP (if my math is correct). With 0.7 HP regen and 0.3 MP regen it means you will restore all lost MP in just 14 turns, while in the same time you will restore just 10 HP and you will need another 51 (!) turns after those 14 turns to get back to full HP.

Edit. You can easily see it in final morgue, the character has 216/363 HP and 29/30 MP. It is my personal experience also, I always have full MP soon after very hard fight while my HP can still be rather low.

Edit2. It takes 362/0.7=517 turns to restore HP from 1 to 363, it takes 100 turns to restore MP from 0 to 30 so if you got to 1 HP and 0 MP, in 100 turns you will have less than 20% HP but 100% MP.
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
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Post Saturday, 18th July 2020, 21:00

Re: The new qw topic

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D I want this brought back to the surface, to reemerge to our conscious minds.

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