Dark Souls (now on PC!)

[PerverseSuffering]

Oh come on, if you haven't heard the word, you must be deaf.

Dark Souls, the second most unforgiving game after Tetris, roguelikes aside.

Anybody playing? Praisin' the Sun yet?

[mrbobbyg]

Your name is so appropriate for a Dark Souls player. I have never come so close to destroying my entire gaming area as I have while playing that game.

[inkydood]

I put about 150-175 hours into Dark Souls on the 360-- no PVP, just played the game over and over. Best 3D action game ever made. Crawl is better, but it's apples and oranges. Dark Souls is the best orange. Except Demon's Souls, perhaps, but I'm not buying a PS3 to find out.

The reputation for extreme difficulty is unwarranted, though. The atmosphere and design create a sense of intimidation and even brutality, but the difficulty doesn't approach the worst of the arcade/NES era. Ghosts 'n Goblins lol

[omegasean]

This is a great game !

I played a lot on the 360 also and hope that the PC version is good too.

Crawl is more unforgiving, but Dark Souls is difficult.

[eeviac]

I've been wanting to play the Souls games for so long, but stopped buying/playing consoles years ago. This game is really really good so far.

Be warned that it's essentially unplayable without a gamepad.

[PerverseSuffering]

I've been wanting to play the Souls games for so long, but stopped buying/playing consoles years ago. This game is really really good so far.

Be warned that it's essentially unplayable without a gamepad.

Really? I'm in Sen Fortress now, no gamepad, kb&m. It's not that bad, actually, if you remap stuff good.

[eeviac]

Yeah, despite me playing exclusively PC games for the last few years, I couldn't figure this game out until I picked up a 360 controller. So worth it though. Dark Souls is GOTY material.

Working my way through Blighttown now after clearing Parrish.

[Kirbypowered]

game over and over

It's a game that drove me nuts, but I loved every moment of it. Of course, it's not nearly as hard as some roguelikes, but the difficulty's up there for mainstream games nowadays. Still, having played this before even knowing what a roguelike was, I think it helped me ease into the difficulty instead of going straight from, say, Kirby, to Dungeon Crawl.

Also, curses in Dark Souls are great. Everyone should have one.

edited to remove any likeness to the colour red

[eeviac]

rougelike

This is a common misnomer/typo. The term is 'roguelike', as in 'similar to the game Rogue'. Rouge is something different.

[Kirbypowered]

rougelike

This is a common misnomer/typo. The term is 'roguelike', as in 'similar to the game Rogue'. Rouge is something different.

Bah, I make that mistake way too often. I've learned the difference between rogue and rouge many times, but I always seem to forget anyways. Thanks for catching me this time, maybe I'll remember for once.

[Grimm]

It's far past the time that someone should have combined the dungeon crawl genre with the girls' dress-up doll genre to create a genuine rougelike.

edit: Cute Knight, duh

[varsovie]

It's far past the time that someone should have combined the dungeon crawl genre with the girls' dress-up doll genre to create a genuine rougelike.

edit: Cute Knight, duh

Also princessRL.

[Grimm]

Also princessRL.

That's pretty neat.

[ClawlessVictory]

I HATED Dark Souls. I must be in the minority with this opinion, and also, I usually love difficult games, but this one was an exercise in frustration! Can anyone explain to me how you can possibly have fun with a game where you die every 30 seconds and have to repeat the same situations over and over and over again????

At least with a game like Crawl, it's randomized and the situations are vastly different when you die. Dark Souls is the epitome of boredom for me.

That dragon thing with the huge mouth on it's underside was the final straw for me. It leaps way up into the air and comes crashing down on you, so you have to flee for cover and couterattack. Well, the camera is infuriating when it jumps, leaving me disoriented and I would get squashed over and over, then I'd have to repeat half of the level to get back to the dragon, only to do it over again. Made me wanna smash everything in sight haha...

Another thing that bothered me about it were all of the glitches. I finally had enough at one point and started looking at spoilers. I learned you could get a powerful weapon by sniping the dragon that guards the bridge at the beginning of the game. Well, I tried sniping it, and the dragon starts bouncing around and glitched through the bridge, plummeting to it's death and taking the weapon with it.

[PerverseSuffering]

I HATED Dark Souls. I must be in the minority with this opinion, and also, I usually love difficult games, but this one was an exercise in frustration! Can anyone explain to me how you can possibly have fun with a game where you die every 30 seconds and have to repeat the same situations over and over and over again????

At least with a game like Crawl, it's randomized and the situations are vastly different when you die. Dark Souls is the epitome of boredom for me.

That dragon thing with the huge mouth on it's underside was the final straw for me. It leaps way up into the air and comes crashing down on you, so you have to flee for cover and couterattack. Well, the camera is infuriating when it jumps, leaving me disoriented and I would get squashed over and over, then I'd have to repeat half of the level to get back to the dragon, only to do it over again. Made me wanna smash everything in sight haha...

Another thing that bothered me about it were all of the glitches. I finally had enough at one point and started looking at spoilers. I learned you could get a powerful weapon by sniping the dragon that guards the bridge at the beginning of the game. Well, I tried sniping it, and the dragon starts bouncing around and glitched through the bridge, plummeting to it's death and taking the weapon with it.

Dying every 30 seconds? I've had my difficulties in the beginning, but every 30 seconds? Not even suitable for exaggeration. Maybe third-person isn't really your thing, that could be it.

Gaping Dragon? You don't want to lock on to him, you just run behind it and smash its tail till it falls off. Should've engaged in jolly cooperation, too. You can summon both Lautrec and Solaire by that point. If you got to him first, though? Not the Belfry Gargoyles? You could try beating them first.

Getting Drake Sword? Seriously? Hack-and-slash isn't your thing, I figure. All of us have a genre we're bad at no matter what. A pity DaS didn't give you as much fun as it did to many others, though.

Also, picrelated. Piercing the heavens, so to say.

[inkydood]

Another thing that bothered me about it were all of the glitches. I finally had enough at one point and started looking at spoilers. I learned you could get a powerful weapon by sniping the dragon that guards the bridge at the beginning of the game. Well, I tried sniping it, and the dragon starts bouncing around and glitched through the bridge, plummeting to it's death and taking the weapon with it.

The Drake Sword isn't that good for very long; you're much better off upgrading a decent "normal" weapon at the blacksmith. Also, that glitch sounds hilarious-- but come to think of it, I don't think I ever encountered a single glitch. Framerate drops, sure (though outside of Blighttown swamp, nothing terrible), but the game basically always worked as intended. Are you playing the PC version? I've heard mixed things.

Can anyone explain to me how you can possibly have fun with a game where you die every 30 seconds and have to repeat the same situations over and over and over again????

At least with a game like Crawl, it's randomized and the situations are vastly different when you die. Dark Souls is the epitome of boredom for me.

Somebody never played contra/ninja gaiden/any schmup ever...the fun is in overcoming and mastering such a difficult challenge. Premade content is more tightly designed to test player skill (and is more aesthetically pleasing), hence why vaults in Crawl tend to be the most interesting parts-- an algorithm can't compete with human ingenuity (though, admittedly, that's also why Sprint can be so frustrating). Even in Crawl, between games more things tend to stay the same than change. Some randomization is good, but I'd rather have a masterfully crafted experience than pure randomness.

[ClawlessVictory]

Another thing that bothered me about it were all of the glitches. I finally had enough at one point and started looking at spoilers. I learned you could get a powerful weapon by sniping the dragon that guards the bridge at the beginning of the game. Well, I tried sniping it, and the dragon starts bouncing around and glitched through the bridge, plummeting to it's death and taking the weapon with it.

The Drake Sword isn't that good for very long; you're much better off upgrading a decent "normal" weapon at the blacksmith. Also, that glitch sounds hilarious-- but come to think of it, I don't think I ever encountered a single glitch. Framerate drops, sure (though outside of Blighttown swamp, nothing terrible), but the game basically always worked as intended. Are you playing the PC version? I've heard mixed things.

Can anyone explain to me how you can possibly have fun with a game where you die every 30 seconds and have to repeat the same situations over and over and over again????

At least with a game like Crawl, it's randomized and the situations are vastly different when you die. Dark Souls is the epitome of boredom for me.

Somebody never played contra/ninja gaiden/any schmup ever...the fun is in overcoming and mastering such a difficult challenge. Premade content is more tightly designed to test player skill (and is more aesthetically pleasing), hence why vaults in Crawl tend to be the most interesting parts-- an algorithm can't compete with human ingenuity (though, admittedly, that's also why Sprint can be so frustrating). Even in Crawl, between games more things tend to stay the same than change. Some randomization is good, but I'd rather have a masterfully crafted experience than pure randomness.

Yeah, I played and loved Contra/Ninja Gaiden/Gradius/R-Type, etc. In fact, I still love those games. Maybe it has something to do with my age and having no patience/time to repeat a challenge over and over again until I master it, but I think it has more to do with the third person camera. I can't think of a single third person game I've ever enjoyed. Something about having to grapple with the camera while controlling your character seems unnecessary to me, might as well go first person and avoid camera problems altogether.

I'd rather slice my eyeball with a razorblade than suffer Dark Souls again

[eeviac]

The more I play this game the more I love it. I love it so much that I've started over. Twice. I get my character going and I think 'wait no I can build this guy better'. I'm going for a wanderer into faith dex sunbro. I want to be a holy dispenser of jolly justice.

As great as the game is though, I think the capra demon boss was a big design misstep. He's the only situation I've seen where I feel like I was cheated, and I beat him by cheating back - glitching his pathfinding and dropping my bandit's knife on his head over and over.

[ClawlessVictory]

The more I play this game the more I love it. I love it so much that I've started over. Twice. I get my character going and I think 'wait no I can build this guy better'. I'm going for a wanderer into faith dex sunbro. I want to be a holy dispenser of jolly justice.

As great as the game is though, I think the capra demon boss was a big design misstep. He's the only situation I've seen where I feel like I was cheated, and I beat him by cheating back - glitching his pathfinding and dropping my bandit's knife on his head over and over.

Is that the boss where you enter a portal, and then BOOM, before you even have time to react and orient yourself, he's already leaped at you and hit you for half damage with his swords? Plus, the two dogs running around, restricting your movement within that very small corridor you're forced to fight in. Man, just thinking about that fight pisses me off. Such a clumsy affair, stumbling over those freaking dogs... I need to go get some air

[eeviac]

Yeah that's the one. Those dogs, man.

[ClawlessVictory]

Yeah that's the one. Those dogs, man.

I would like to see someone defend that design decision. The dogs and that corridor exposes the clunkiness of the camera and the problem with 3rd person play control. The fight would probably be infinitely easier if your movement wasn't restricted by those damned dogs and if you could get a clear bead on one of them.

In every single 3rd person game I've attempted to play, I always wished I could play it first person instead. Take the Elder Scrolls for example. There's a third person option, but I've never heard of anyone ever opting for that mode outside of briefly examining their character or maybe abusing an exploit to look around a corner without being spotted.

[inkydood]

I would like to see someone defend that design decision. The dogs and that corridor exposes the clunkiness of the camera and the problem with 3rd person play control. The fight would probably be infinitely easier if your movement wasn't restricted by those damned dogs and if you could get a clear bead on one of them.

No way. Worst fight in the game. After multiple playthroughs I still dread it, though Bed of Chaos can be annoying. But I don't think first person view would make it any easier.

In every single 3rd person game I've attempted to play, I always wished I could play it first person instead. Take the Elder Scrolls for example. There's a third person option, but I've never heard of anyone ever opting for that mode outside of briefly examining their character or maybe abusing an exploit to look around a corner without being spotted.

TES is built for first-person, though. Your second axis is mapped to looking around, not an independent camera, and combat is fairly basic. Any game like DaS where combat requires you to strafe around an opponent, allows side-jumps and other complex dodging/platforming maneuvers, or needs you to take in a large field of view belongs in third-person. WoW (even has first-person, nobody uses it for a reason), Zelda, Metal Gear, DmC, PoP, Assassin's Creed, GTA--I wouldn't want to play any of these in first-person. A good example of a game attempting to bunk this tradition would be Mirror's Edge, which...well, personally, I hated.

[ClawlessVictory]

I would like to see someone defend that design decision. The dogs and that corridor exposes the clunkiness of the camera and the problem with 3rd person play control. The fight would probably be infinitely easier if your movement wasn't restricted by those damned dogs and if you could get a clear bead on one of them.

No way. Worst fight in the game. After multiple playthroughs I still dread it, though Bed of Chaos can be annoying. But I don't think first person view would make it any easier.

In every single 3rd person game I've attempted to play, I always wished I could play it first person instead. Take the Elder Scrolls for example. There's a third person option, but I've never heard of anyone ever opting for that mode outside of briefly examining their character or maybe abusing an exploit to look around a corner without being spotted.

TES is built for first-person, though. Your second axis is mapped to looking around, not an independent camera, and combat is fairly basic. Any game like DaS where combat requires you to strafe around an opponent, allows side-jumps and other complex dodging/platforming maneuvers, or needs you to take in a large field of view belongs in third-person. WoW (even has first-person, nobody uses it for a reason), Zelda, Metal Gear, DmC, PoP, Assassin's Creed, GTA--I wouldn't want to play any of these in first-person. A good example of a game attempting to bunk this tradition would be Mirror's Edge, which...well, personally, I hated.

Good argument, and I suppose you're right. All of the games you mentioned that work well in a third person mode either don't appeal to me, or I didn't like. So I guess I just don't like third person games and Dark Souls isn't for me. But that capra demon boss fight is bullshit, I don't care what anyone says haha

[PerverseSuffering]

Oh god.

The battle with Gwyn.

Those who have already fought it will understand me, those who have not are in for a... sad experience.