Playing sub-optimally just for convenience

[sardonica]

Do you ever do something majorly suboptimal just for your own convenience? I'll start us off with my favorite:

- Buying +strength with a DE just for moving stash

[One-Eyed Jack]

-Zap wands at myself first time
-Ignore labyrinths sometimes
-Melee jellies instead of sling pillardancing
-Chei

[Danakh]

Go to temple level 1, takes god and return D1 and start playing

[Pteriforever]

Can't autopickup an item due to full inventory. I drop some stuff, then move off the pile, then back onto it, autopicking the item.

[TehDruid]

Autoexplore makes me do lots of sub-optimal things, primarily auto-exploring.

[dk]

Can't autopickup an item due to full inventory. I drop some stuff, then move off the pile, then back onto it, autopicking the item.

That's exactly what I do all the time

[sir_laser]

Spam Tab, even though it's a terrible idea.

[BlackSheep]

Quaff potions of slowing/confusion/paralysis for the nutrition while resting.

[jejorda2]

Quaff potions of slowing/confusion/paralysis for the nutrition while resting.

That sounds like the opposite of the thread title. It's more optimal, but less convenient.

[BlackSheep]

Quaff potions of slowing/confusion/paralysis for the nutrition while resting.

That sounds like the opposite of the thread title. It's more optimal, but less convenient.

You know, I never thought of it that way. I've just always had this feeling that it's a bad idea, but I still do it.

[Blade]

Spam Tab, even though it's a terrible idea.

You're in good company -- elliptic (arguably the best player) uses tab quite frequently, and Elynae (also very good) uses it mercilessly.

[cerebovssquire]

I barely ever check for glowing weapons on D:1 kobolds and stuff like that, except when I'm desperate for a streak or something.

That sounds like the opposite of the thread title. It's more optimal, but less convenient.

You feel yourself slow down.
Boris comes into view.


...yeah right, optimal.

Elynae (also very good) uses it mercilessly.

mash dat key

In my defence I don't hold it down usually, but hammer on it in very rapid succession to prevent at least some deaths.

[rebthor]

I'm not sure if it's suboptimal or not, but when I have both regen and sublimation of blood, I'll often self-sublimate and cast regen just to feel like I'm doing something to get myself back to full mana as quick as possible.

I asked on IRC and a couple people said they also do it, so at least I'm not alone.

[dk]

Stepping on a tile to know which items are there on that tile instead of just hitting CTRL+x.

[Stormfox]

Going out of my way to use-ID my missiles. I know the biggest stacks of stones and darts are +0. I don't need the game to tell me so...and yet I obsessively fling them at popcorn monsters in the hope that the game will tell me, when a couple of whacks with my best weapon or spell will get the job done faster.

[Happy Corner]

Picking a combo that I know dick about.

It's more convenient than starting over with a favorite combo after I've just scored a YASD (or even a full win) with it, and I just don't feel like building it all over again (yet).

And it's very sub-optimal.

[Grimm]

Going out of my way to use-ID my missiles. I know the biggest stacks of stones and darts are +0. I don't need the game to tell me so...and yet I obsessively fling them at popcorn monsters in the hope that the game will tell me, when a couple of whacks with my best weapon or spell will get the job done faster.

For quite a while I was in the habit of collecting all the bolts in the Dungeon and firing them repeatedly (` key) against a wall in order to ID them. I just...HAD to know.

It would often take a shockingly large amount of shots before they IDed.

[varsovie]

Even when the stair is in my LOS, or sometime next to me, instead of using Vi, arrow or mumpad to get on, I use ctrl+X : enter.

[Yet Another Stupid Noob]

I will often just keep attacking it if I am at 35% heath and a mob is at 10% instead of disengaging, resting, and coming back when I am healthy again.

I also will keep exploring when I am not at 100% health/mana.

I don't win alot.

[Midpoint]

I will often just keep attacking it if I am at 35% heath and a mob is at 10% instead of disengaging, resting, and coming back when I am healthy again.

I also will keep exploring when I am not at 100% health/mana.

I don't win alot.

This can often be correct play when Xom'ing it

[Confidence Interval]

Spam Tab, even though it's a terrible idea.

Spam Tab when starting out as a SpEn because you don't yet have Ensorcelled Hibernation and it's more convenient just to tab until you get it, and start again if you die, rather than pillar dancing and running away from things just to make it to Level 2.

[Blade]

Not really for convenience, but I will often pump loads of xp into useless skills so that I can get cool titles. Currently, my goals are to ascend a Demonic Blade, Plane Walker, Plane Glider, Dungeon Master, Ignorant, and some others, just because that's the fun way to do things.

[cerebovssquire]

Spam Tab when starting out as a SpEn because you don't yet have Ensorcelled Hibernation and it's more convenient just to tab until you get it, and start again if you die, rather than pillar dancing and running away from things just to make it to Level 2.

hint: +1 darts

[MyOtheHedgeFox]

Spectating somebody to see how to deal with a monster.

[Sphara]

Not running to my stash every goddamn time when I find something worth conserving. I dont wanna bore the spectators. Returning from Zot:5 to Lair:1 is not going to be applauded. Its more like Clockwork Orange suddenly turning into a Adam Sandler movie.

[Confidence Interval]

Spam Tab when starting out as a SpEn because you don't yet have Ensorcelled Hibernation and it's more convenient just to tab until you get it, and start again if you die, rather than pillar dancing and running away from things just to make it to Level 2.

hint: +1 darts

How inconvenient.

[Yet Another Stupid Noob]

I will also often pick up darts for throwing instead of clubs (even if I can carry the weight and have room) just so I don't have to worry about running out.

conversly, using darts instead of a sling becuase it is too much effort to swap weapons

[rchandra]

burning books with Trog instead of stashing spares for more explosives and/or post-Trog plans

[BlackSheep]

I will also often pick up darts for throwing instead of clubs (even if I can carry the weight and have room) just so I don't have to worry about running out.

Do people use clubs over darts? They have such bad accuracy that I hardly ever hit anything with them.

[TwilightPhoenix]

Generating random characters. Not good randoms, but pure randoms. OgSu go!

Using arrow keys to walk around corners instead of the actual diagonal keys on webtiles because having no mouse support is a PITA for me (and partly explains why I played so little this tournament, the other being I thought it went on for another week or two).

[Konebred]

Eh, it isn't THAt sub-optimal, but if I am playing a fire elementalist I will run around a group of sheep to get them all bunched together so I can watch them all catch fire when I sticky flame them. I am easily amused.

[mumra]

Not running to my stash every goddamn time when I find something worth conserving. I dont wanna bore the spectators. Returning from Zot:5 to Lair:1 is not going to be applauded. Its more like Clockwork Orange suddenly turning into a Adam Sandler movie.

What's worth conserving when you're already at Zot:5? Stashing isn't optimal play anyway.

[Stormfox]

Eh, it isn't THAt sub-optimal, but if I am playing a fire elementalist I will run around a group of sheep to get them all bunched together so I can watch them all catch fire when I sticky flame them.

No more sub-optimal than expending two or three extra turns to get four orcs or gnolls to bunch up so you can hit them all with a single Mephitic, rather than casting the spell four times.

[Confidence Interval]

No more sub-optimal than expending two or three extra turns to get four orcs or gnolls to bunch up so you can hit them all with a single Mephitic, rather than casting the spell four times.

To me this sounds not sub-optimal/convenient but optimal (in terms of conserving MP and food) and inconvenient. Gnoll-herding definitely does not sound convenient.

[Stormfox]

Exactly. The post I was replying to was stating that herding sheep to ignite them all (by chain reaction) with one cast of Sticky was sub-optimal, and I don't think it is, any more than gnoll-herding is sub-optimal.

And yes, it's inconvenient.

[Dustbin]

Tab all day erryday
Arranging my stash into piles by item type
Do snake 5 ASAP

[Southpaw]

Not running to my stash every goddamn time when I find something worth conserving. I dont wanna bore the spectators. Returning from Zot:5 to Lair:1 is not going to be applauded. Its more like Clockwork Orange suddenly turning into a Adam Sandler movie.

What's worth conserving when you're already at Zot:5? Stashing isn't optimal play anyway.

Why is stashing sub-optimal?

[tasonir]

Not running to my stash every goddamn time when I find something worth conserving. I dont wanna bore the spectators. Returning from Zot:5 to Lair:1 is not going to be applauded. Its more like Clockwork Orange suddenly turning into a Adam Sandler movie.

What's worth conserving when you're already at Zot:5? Stashing isn't optimal play anyway.

Why is stashing sub-optimal?

In terms of getting the highest score, the fewer the turns the better. So going back from elf:3 to your stash in the lair, then continuing elf is a waste of possibly a few thousand turns, depending on distance. If you don't care about your score, it's fine. I run back to my stash all the time. I also hang around in pan for extra exp sometimes

[Jabberwocky]

In terms of getting the highest score, the fewer the turns the better. So going back from elf:3 to your stash in the lair, then continuing elf is a waste of possibly a few thousand turns, depending on distance. If you don't care about your score, it's fine. I run back to my stash all the time. I also hang around in pan for extra exp sometimes

It doesn't seem like a trip from elf: 3 to a stash on lair one or two would be a few thousand turns.

[Southpaw]

In terms of getting the highest score, the fewer the turns the better. So going back from elf:3 to your stash in the lair, then continuing elf is a waste of possibly a few thousand turns, depending on distance. If you don't care about your score, it's fine. I run back to my stash all the time. I also hang around in pan for extra exp sometimes

Oh okay, you're interpreting "optimal play" as maximizing your end score. I was interpreting it as maximizing your likelihood of winning / surviving

[Sphara]

Not running to my stash every goddamn time when I find something worth conserving. I dont wanna bore the spectators. Returning from Zot:5 to Lair:1 is not going to be applauded. Its more like Clockwork Orange suddenly turning into a Adam Sandler movie.

What's worth conserving when you're already at Zot:5? Stashing isn't optimal play anyway.

Why is stashing sub-optimal?

I'm not an expert player so I can't tell you what is 100% optimal but I give few opinions why I consider stashing pretty much optimal:

Exploring dungeon burdened is not optimal play no matter how great items you are carrying.
In many cases entering trove needs bunch of enchanting scrolls. You dont carry those with you without conservation if you are one or two short of entering the trove.
If someone thinks that carrying all your scrolls of recharging and potions of cure mutation is optimal play then I cant agree with him.
In most cases it makes not much sense keeping 15 meat rations in your inventory.
Nemelex players (and why not the others) for preserving decks for later use.
Ever played Deep Dwarf spamming attack rods with deterioration mutation 3 through the most of the game? Potions restore abilities became just about the most important items in the game after i'd eaten every royal jelly in the dungeon.

Mumra: As you know Zot:5 isnt always the last thing you explore in the game but I agree that in the lategame visits to the stash become more rare.

Of course you can leave all the valuable things lying around the dungeon and ctrl+f search them later and hope the game wont spawn jellies near those items.
My playstyle is walking on the thin line between trying to play optimal and having fun with the game. So far I have succeeded with the latter.

[mumra]

I didn't say carry everything around with you. But you don't need to stash. You can just leave items in the corner of any old room or on a downstairs (it's extremely rare for jellies or other monsters to path into a corner), and find them later with Ctrl-F. Since you won't spend any time on a cleared floor there's no danger of losing stuff while you're away.

The reason stashing is sub-optimal is simply because you burn more food making trips to and from your stash, and your game takes longer for no good reason; nothing directly to do with turn count or score.

[Southpaw]

Sure you burn food running there, but normally the 1-2 monsters that spawn to interupt my travel drop a corpse than I can eat and recoup the cost so it's not really a huge issue.

And unless you're running around as a troll the food loss shouldn't be anything even noticeable, as you'll just eat some dead guy as soon as you return to wherever you were.

Note: I recognize this is less and less true as the game enters the later stages, but you have much less of a need for a stash then as well so I'd argue it's not really relevant

[mumra]

Stashing is suboptimal but the optimal way (putting items on a nearby level then picking them up when you enter that level again so jellies don't get them and moving them around again etc) consumes way more real-time.

If you leave things in corners then the chances of a jelly pathing to it are extremely slim, as I understood it.

Anyway, yeah, there are various reasons why it's just handy to have most of your junk in one place. I like to have all my spellbooks in one pile, or a few piles loosely by category, so I can Shift-M over them and peruse the list. It's just a way smoother interface than "Ctrl-F book".

[Jabberwocky]

Not taking the time to drop my !'s when entering a ice cave or my ?'s when entering a volcano when I don't have conservation.

[Grimm]

I always take them in then drop them right at the start because I might need heal/might etc. inside.

[Jabberwocky]

I always take them in then drop them right at the start because I might need heal/might etc. inside.

That's the smart thing to do, I just don't bother to take the time so I always end up loosing a whole bunch of stuff.

[Dustbin]

I always take them in then drop them right at the start because I might need heal/might etc. inside.

This is all well and good up till you are suddenly fleeing said cave/volcano and don't have time to stop and pick them up !