New species proposal: Primordial


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Post Monday, 24th September 2018, 01:15

New species proposal: Primordial

Flavor: The Primordials are the last remnants of what was before the gods created the world. Looking like a cross between a snail, an armored fish, a cephalopod, and a sea lion, they move awkwardly on both dry land and in the water, but their many tentacles, hard shell of overlapping plates, constantly watching eyes, and distributed organ and nervous systems make them deadly warriors. Utterly alien to the other races, most Primordials hide alone in dark places, waiting for the day when the world will be theirs again.

Stats: 10 str, 10 int, 10 dex, +1 to a random stat every level.
+30% hp
+2 MP
+5 MR each level
Large.
Cannot wear any armor, gloves, boots, cloaks, scarves, gloves, hats, or helmets.
Cannot wear amulets.
Can wear 6 rings.
Can move in deep water.
Cannot worship gods.
+0 aptitudes across the board. -1 spellcasting, -1 experience.

What distinguishes this race from the rest would be its unique movement system. Primordials would face a certain direction at all times. When facing in that direction, they can attack only the square they face and in the 2 squares directly adjacent to it (cleaving and reaching work normally, though they can still only aim in the cone they face). They can also only cast spells, evoke items, invoke god abilities, and fire projectiles in the cone starting from those three squares. They can only move forwards (towards the direction they are facing (using the up key or 8 on the number pad)), or forwards diagonally with 7 and 9). To turn to face other directions, they should use the left and right keys, or the 4 and 7 keys. Turning takes 10 auts per 45 degrees, and moving takes 20 auts, which is slower than a naga. Primordials have AC equal to 3 + 3sqrt(xl) + xl and GDR counting their natural AC as the base AC of a body armor, but only against attacks from the directions they are not facing. From the direction they face, their AC is 0. In exchange for this, Primordials gain fantastic offensive melee capacities. They can wield up to 3 weapons and up to 3 shields (but only if they use 3 1-handed weapons, and the shields are only useful against frontal and front diagonal attacks). Each turn, they can make one attack with each of their weapons, all against the same target. They are capable of constriction, much like an octopode.

Why should this species be included?
It is differentiated from the other species by factors beyond some reshuffled stats and aptitudes through use of unique movement mechanics.
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Zot Zealot

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Post Monday, 24th September 2018, 01:32

Re: New species proposal: Primordial

Sounds like the Logo Turtle!!

The idea is very imaginative. Crawl has no concept of orientation now (well, OODs...) so this is also new territory. Unfortunately, I fear this would be extremely tedious to play. Having to manually rotate your character would lose its novelty quickly. Any situation where you are manually moving in sight of monsters through a twisty corridor would become extremely painful. I guess slow movement means you only get a couple of moves before they catch up :)

Also, the species is very complex: slot restrictions, extra slots, no worship, slow movement, orientation, innate AC, branded attack. Species in DCSS generally have one or two unique aspects. Can you pick the one (or perhaps two) most interesting aspects and include only them on a species?

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arandomperson12

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Post Monday, 24th September 2018, 02:43

Re: New species proposal: Primordial

Sounds very interesting.

Have you thought about just taking 1 turn to turn into any other direction? Or would that be too strong? I feel like it would improve the playability a lot.
Some personal opinions:
I'd prefer if it could worship gods, adds more variation.
I don't think it's too complex.
Summoner might be a pretty good strat because it makes it easier to damage things without turning. Some aoe spells such as ozo's would be stronger than normal too (this is a good thing imo, I'm just pointing out some interesting implications).

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arandomperson12

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Post Monday, 24th September 2018, 02:48

Re: New species proposal: Primordial

Well, you could just have them turn in the direction of any keypress which tries to take them in a direction they are not facing. This would probably be quite annoying to code, though.

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Post Monday, 24th September 2018, 02:53

Re: New species proposal: Primordial

Nah if the crawl code makes it possible to do a species like this in the first place (really not sure about this), you can easily code turning like that or whatever way you want.

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 24th September 2018, 07:00

Re: New species proposal: Primordial

Having to muscle-memorize a different navigation system for just one species sounds a bit too radical to me.
DCSS: 97:...MfCj}SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}
FeEE{HOIEMiAE}GrGlHuWrGnWrNaAKBaFi{MiDeMfDe}{DrAKTrAMGhEnGnWz}
{PaBeDjFi}OgAKPaCAGnCjOgCKMfAEAtCKSpCjDEEE{HOSu
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Barkeep

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Post Monday, 24th September 2018, 15:16

Re: New species proposal: Primordial

How can it invoke god abilities if it can't worship gods?

I'm in the "you could build a cool roguelike with this movement mechanic, but I think you'd want to build the game with that idea from the start" camp.
I am not a very good player. My mouth is a foul pit of LIES. KNOW THIS.

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Rast

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Post Tuesday, 25th September 2018, 05:08

Re: New species proposal: Primordial

A unique movement mechanic could definitely make for an interesting new species. That said, I have to agree that this one looks like it might well lead to rapid tedium, due to all the additional commands involved. Plus the complexity of how much you can turn how fast and which directions you can attack and how many enemies you can attack despite using multiple weapons and which directions you can block from and so on and so on.

Also, it feels like you smooshed a bunch of species characteristics together for reasons not related to the movement mechanic/species design.
-Ogre health
-Ogre size
-Octopode rings
-Octopode constriction
-Octopode swimming
-Felid armor restrictions
-Felid XL aptitudes
-Formicid weapon wielding + one more "hand" for added complications
-Naga MR
-Demigod magic
-Demigod inability to worship gods
-Almost demigod stats
-Better than demigod stat growth
-Human skill aptitudes (or near enough)
-Gargoyle bonuses to AC/GDR
-No amulets, because reasons?


Basically, if you want to make this work at all, you need to start simple, and focus on the movement mechanic; if it's not straightforward, and enjoyable, the species is a non-starter. If and when you manage the movement aspect, we can consider what other elements might be worth adding to make gameplay more fun, more flavorful, or more unique.

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Slime Squisher

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Post Sunday, 30th September 2018, 17:20

Re: New species proposal: Primordial

Just the facing aspect of the proposal creates a massive headache. People like to play this on terminals, keep in mind. Changing the bindings for turning would also be quite tedious.

Alternatively, you could simply create a system where taking a directional action, and the taking an action in the opposite direction (or its two adjacent ones) adds a big time penalty (like, doubling the cost of the action). For example, if you are in a hallway, hitting a bug, then walking in the opposite direction, then hitting it again would consume 2x(0.7+1+0.7)=4.8 instead of 2.4. You could also get a bonus for conserving direction (or using an adjacent direction).

I think everything else is a bit too much, Shields have always been omnidirectional in Crawl too. The three Shields stacking would be overly good, the tree Shields only defending from a different direction would be overly bad.


But yeah, I agree this species seems a bit too complex even from a thematic standpoint:

The Primordials are the last remnants of what was before the gods created the world. Looking like a cross between a snail, an armored fish, a cephalopod, and a sea lion,


How do you even picture this?


Aside from that, Crawl has always been very omnidirectional. Having some species that changes that would be fun, but there are still some things you can't do (IMO Shields should stay omnidirectional). Race should have a less complicated theme

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