Some items never generating?


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bli

Temple Termagant

Posts: 6

Joined: Sunday, 18th August 2013, 11:01

Post Sunday, 23rd September 2018, 17:08

Some items never generating?

It's the first time I go so far in the game: My formicid fighter is now level 25.

I'm quite surprised not having encountered a single scroll of enchant armor so far.

Could this be a bug, and what do you advice me to do to report it properly? I'm playing version 0.22 online:

https://crawl.xtahua.com/crawl/morgue/bli/

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8322

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Sunday, 23rd September 2018, 18:40

Re: Some items never generating?

It's not a bug. Item generation in DCSS is randomized.

Vaults Vanquisher

Posts: 493

Joined: Friday, 11th February 2011, 17:13

Post Sunday, 23rd September 2018, 21:37

Re: Some items never generating?

This is kind of off topic, and I am kind of hijacking this thread, but it's a partially relevant realization I had during my last win. Also, I know I have a lot to learn, so if you disagree, please understand that I take your disagreement as a gift an an opportunity to learn more. I'm not claiming to be an expert, nor even particularly competent.

The randomness in Crawl's item generation makes it easy to hide the fact that bad players, myself included (trying to get better), will eventually win if we grind enough, because Crawl will toss us a rapier of electricity, an artifact ring of wizardry, and some other insanely above the power curve items early on.

For example, I have ascended a few transmuters who never learned sticks to snakes. This is, under my current understanding, sub-optimal play unless you have options that out-curve sticks to snakes. Given the fact that sticks to snakes is a really powerful spell, this means that I won in spite of my poor strategy.

Playing Gnolls really made me realize this. Since they have access to every skill, Gnolls have to make use of every option the have well because they can't cheese a win powered by a +12 suit of CPA and a Executioners Axe of Frost that they got in Lair. Gnolls are always underpowered in depth; so you have to use breadth to make them viable.

So yeah, Crawl is random. And because it's random the difference in skill level really shows in those games where you get 2 rings and 0 enchant scrolls by Depths.
Last edited by mrbobbyg on Monday, 24th September 2018, 02:08, edited 1 time in total.

Crypt Cleanser

Posts: 727

Joined: Friday, 6th January 2012, 12:30

Post Sunday, 23rd September 2018, 22:20

Re: Some items never generating?

I mostly don't use non-wand evokables, animate skeleton, zombies, Yred, ranged weapons. For decent to strong combos, using only your main choice of offense, either a weapon or spells, is enough to win. And I'm fine with a slight disadvantage if it means cutting out some unenjoyable gameplay.
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Not getting any enchant armor scrolls is unusually unlucky. I've had at least one game where I got like 2 scrolls by that point, but never 0. I've had a least one game where I didn't have boots in depths or something like that. Stuff like that happens sometimes.

Dungeon Dilettante

Posts: 4

Joined: Sunday, 23rd September 2018, 22:05

Post Monday, 24th September 2018, 03:11

Re: Some items never generating?

Sounds "almost" impossibly unlucky. (Theoretically, something like "inability to use devices", or having nothing that can be enchanted, "could" lessen the chances. Just like Acquirement strongly favors things that are useful to you currently).

bli

Temple Termagant

Posts: 6

Joined: Sunday, 18th August 2013, 11:01

Post Tuesday, 25th September 2018, 21:31

Re: Some items never generating?

I finally got one scroll of enchant armour at Zot:2.

Not sure what I should use it for, since the armours I usually wear cannot be further enchanted.

  Code:
Armour
 h - the +11 scale mail "Araraduf" (worn) {rF++ Regen+ MP+9 Stlth-}
 k - a +2 pair of boots of flying (worn)
 E - a +2 pair of gloves of dexterity (worn)
 U - a scarf of resistance (worn)
 X - the +8 large shield "Gifommykk" (worn) {rPois}
 i - a +1 buckler of reflection
 m - a +3 plate armour of magic resistance
 o - a +0 shield of reflection
 v - +0 gold dragon scales
 D - +0 pearl dragon scales
 J - a scarf of cloud immunity
 N - the +4 moon troll leather armour {Spirit, Regen++ MP+5}


Various +0 other dragon scales available.

As for other resistance sources and other goodies:

  Code:
Hand Weapons
 b - the +5 executioner's axe of the End (weapon) {holy, rPois MP+9 Str+8 Stlth-}
 a - the +10 morningstar "Spiderbane" {venom, rN+ Str+6}
 c - a +9 hunting sling of velocity
 s - the +10 dark maul {crush}
 A - the +7 great mace "Firestarter" {inner flame, rF++}
 B - a +9 antimagic eveningstar
 T - a +3 demon whip of flaming


(This dark maul is fun when stabbing: various unaware giants and dragons have been destroyed on on blow of it.)

And:

  Code:
Jewellery
 e - a ring of resist corrosion (right hand)
 f - the amulet of Ymudde (around neck) {Gourm +Fly rF+ rN+}
 p - the ring of Bixt (left hand) {rPois rC+ EV+1}
 t - the ring "Witets" {rPois Int+6}
 x - the ring of Vehumet's Wrath {rF+ rC+ Int+3 SInv}
 P - an uncursed ring of stealth
 W - the ring of Litoiwn {rPois rN+ Str+4}


And:

  Code:
You cannot be hasted, slowed, berserked, paralysed or teleported.
You can dig through walls and to a lower floor.
Your four strong arms can wield two-handed weapons with a shield.
You have a pair of large antennae on your head. (SInv)
You cannot study or use magical devices.
You are hated by all.
You take slightly more damage. (AC -5)
You are somewhat inexperienced. (-2 XL)
You have a beak for a mouth.
You are partially covered in large bone plates. (SH +4)
You have a somewhat thin skeletal structure. (Dex +2, Stealth)
Armour fits poorly on your strangely shaped body.
You are resistant to electric shocks. (rElec)

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 141

Joined: Wednesday, 30th August 2017, 23:08

Post Tuesday, 25th September 2018, 22:11

Re: Some items never generating?

Do the gold dragon scales/plate armor of MR increase your defenses? (AC + EV?) I suspect they do, but I'm always really bad at eyeballing these things. If they do, the MR plate is particularly good looking, you don't really need the aux effects on the scale mail, a pip of MR will be much more useful in Zot than 2 levels of rF, one of which is doing nothing because you already have rF++ elsewhere (and a third level to swap in.)

Speaking of, I'm not positive that scarf of resistance is worth it - there's a +2 cloak lying around in your game, I'd probably wear that and the Vehumet's Wrath ring while just wandering around. That's plenty of resist, AC will give more bang for your buck at this point.

bli

Temple Termagant

Posts: 6

Joined: Sunday, 18th August 2013, 11:01

Post Wednesday, 26th September 2018, 19:19

Re: Some items never generating?

Do the gold dragon scales/plate armor of MR increase your defenses? (AC + EV?)


With the +3 plate armour: AC: 18 and EV: 19
With the +0 gold dragon scales: AC: 17 and EV: 16
With the +11 scale mail: AC: 21 and EV: 23

I was rather wondering whether using the buckler or shield of reflecion would be worth a large decrease in SH (14 or 20 vs 34).
User avatar

Barkeep

Posts: 4339

Joined: Tuesday, 11th January 2011, 12:28

Post Thursday, 27th September 2018, 02:18

Re: Some items never generating?

Firestarter is pretty fun.
I am not a very good player. My mouth is a foul pit of LIES. KNOW THIS.

Halls Hopper

Posts: 62

Joined: Thursday, 16th August 2018, 21:19

Post Friday, 28th September 2018, 09:15

Re: Some items never generating?

I have yet to see a robe of archmagi.

bli

Temple Termagant

Posts: 6

Joined: Sunday, 18th August 2013, 11:01

Post Saturday, 29th September 2018, 06:42

Re: Some items never generating?

Yes, Firestarter is fun too.

I finally lost stupidly in the Slime Pits (stayed too long in a narrow corridor without rcorr), after clearing Zot, surviving 3 or 4 levels of the Abyss, and clearing Cocytus. Never used my scroll of enchant armour.

It will probably be a long time before I reach such an advanced level again. I rarely get a single rune.

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