The Tavern

Code:: 816 Xeom the Chopper (level 7, 0/62 HPs) Began as a Minotaur Berserker on Mar 4, 2018. Was a Priest of Trog. Slain by an unseen horror (3 damage) ... on level 5 of the Dungeon. The game lasted 00:12:26 (4995 turns).

Yes, D:5, and an unseen horror.
I'm afraid of these guys when I don't have Sinv on D:10-12!

The Crawl wiki has good Unseen horror fighting/escaping tips:

http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Unseen_horror

To which I'd add:
* Allies can narrow down where an unseen horror is or isn't, or block it off so you can escape. Especially useful are Call Canine Familiar (sees invisible), Summon Lightning Spire (doesn't move), Summon Butterflies (super spammable)
* Unseen horrors can't fly, so if YOU can fly, deep water/lava can be used for an escape.

None of those methods helps a low level MiBe with no scrolls of teleport and very far away from exits.
I just leave (or widly swing an axe or one of the methods in the wiki) when I find one without sinv when I am of a highest level with higher AC/EV.
But on D:5 it feels particularly unfair.

I would also add: all wands, if you can retreat to a corridor. Flame is the only one that might have too little power to achieve something, but the others should be able to kill, disable, or render visible an unseen horror.

Shtopit wrote:I would also add: all wands, if you can retreat to a corridor. Flame is the only one that might have too little power to achieve something, but the others should be able to kill, disable, or render visible an unseen horror.

Since I've never tried before, do hex wands work on something you can't see if you aim them at the right tile?

(I remember having trouble getting BVC to work on an invisible monster, is why I ask)

yes, BVC is specifically coded to not work on things you can't see (so you don't walk away and deal damage out of LOS)

Patashu wrote:Since I've never tried before, do hex wands work on something you can't see if you aim them at the right tile?

Yes.

I assume this was just an OOD spawn (almost 5 000 turns and D:5).

Sprucery wrote:
Patashu wrote:Since I've never tried before, do hex wands work on something you can't see if you aim them at the right tile?
Yes.

I assume this was just an OOD spawn (almost 5 000 turns and D:5).

There's no respawn timer anymore, so the 'super OOD' mechanic no longer exists. You can still get stuff like ice beasts on D:2 though.

Yeah, I read in the changelog that the 'super OOD' mechanic is no more. I guess I have no clue how (if at all) the turn count affects the monsters generated currently...

When I'm fighting an inv monster without SInv, I retreat to a corridor and then walk back and forth in that corridor.

Won't do you much good that early against an unseen horror.

Majang wrote:Won't do you much good that early against an unseen horror.

It's possible for a strong character like a MiBe to beat an unseen horror at D:5 (XL7) by catching it in a corridor, typically it'd take a useful consumable of some sort (I'd probably blind quaff some potions if I didn't have anything useful identified) and even if you have some useful consumables and you've got a corridor to work with to limit it's movement, it's pretty dangerous, and has a significant chance of killing you. However, with those things, you have better odds then you do if you are swinging blindly in the open with no buffs. It's certainly not *automatic* death if you encounter one at that point in the game, and yes, killing/escaping one requires some luck at that point even if you do everything right and circumstances align in your favor.

It might have been inescapable in this case, it might not have, I don't know. He might also have done things as optimally as was possible under the circumstances and died anyway, I wasn't there. Even if he did do everything as optimally as possible and died, it's not out of place to give generally useful advice on how to deal with them.

If the OP *didn't* know that using a corridor to limit unseen horror's movement was a useful thing to do, then it certainly *does* do him some good, and if he already knew that, then it might help someone else who is a new player and reading these forums.

I'd would definitely agree that a D:5 unseen horror is at the higher end of the 'really nasty and likely to kill you' but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't take advantage of what opportunities you do have available to increase your odds.

Also, another sometimes-helpful fact is that unseen horrors can't open doors, it might or might not have been helpful in this case, but it's certainly a good-to-know thing when dealing with them.

MainiacJoe wrote:When I'm fighting an inv monster without SInv, I retreat to a corridor and then walk back and forth in that corridor.

You don't even need to 'walk back and forth'. Ctrl+dir will swing in a direction, attacking a monster if it's there, and waiting on the spot if it's not.

Patashu wrote:
MainiacJoe wrote:When I'm fighting an inv monster without SInv, I retreat to a corridor and then walk back and forth in that corridor.

You don't even need to 'walk back and forth'. Ctrl+dir will swing in a direction, attacking a monster if it's there, and waiting on the spot if it's not.

This is the method I use - it's great if you have a perfect hallway where the horror can only be on one single tile. I have used it in areas where I don't have as ideal cover, where the horror could be on 3 tiles. Just pick the middle tile and keep spamming ` (the repeat last action key, left of 1). Of course if you have 2 or 3 possible tiles the horror could be on, you'll need far higher stats, so this is good for those later horrors. You'll probably die without a full corridor if you find a horror on d:5

tasonir wrote:
Patashu wrote:
MainiacJoe wrote:When I'm fighting an inv monster without SInv, I retreat to a corridor and then walk back and forth in that corridor.

You don't even need to 'walk back and forth'. Ctrl+dir will swing in a direction, attacking a monster if it's there, and waiting on the spot if it's not.

This is the method I use - it's great if you have a perfect hallway where the horror can only be on one single tile. I have used it in areas where I don't have as ideal cover, where the horror could be on 3 tiles. Just pick the middle tile and keep spamming ` (the repeat last action key, left of 1). Of course if you have 2 or 3 possible tiles the horror could be on, you'll need far higher stats, so this is good for those later horrors. You'll probably die without a full corridor if you find a horror on d:5

Control+direction is definitely superior to walking back and forth.

After successfully hitting it you should back up one tile before swinging again though.

Scroll of fog can reveal location of unseen horror.

Siegurt wrote:
tasonir wrote:
Patashu wrote:[quote="MainiacJoe"]When I'm fighting an inv monster without SInv, I retreat to a corridor and then walk back and forth in that corridor.

You don't even need to 'walk back and forth'. Ctrl+dir will swing in a direction, attacking a monster if it's there, and waiting on the spot if it's not.

This is the method I use - it's great if you have a perfect hallway where the horror can only be on one single tile. I have used it in areas where I don't have as ideal cover, where the horror could be on 3 tiles. Just pick the middle tile and keep spamming ` (the repeat last action key, left of 1). Of course if you have 2 or 3 possible tiles the horror could be on, you'll need far higher stats, so this is good for those later horrors. You'll probably die without a full corridor if you find a horror on d:5

Control+direction is definitely superior to walking back and forth.[/quote]I am not sure. When unseen horror is not adjacent, it's better to move away from it instead of attacking empty space, that makes it more likely to have it adjacent on next turn. It depends on attack speed though: bad idea with quickblade at min delay, good idea with exec. Axe at max delay.

I think it is best to move away, then ctrl+dir back, rinse and repeat (if you have a very fast attack, you might ctrl+dir twice before moving away I guess). If you know how a bat moves, you know how an unseen horror moves.

VeryAngryFelid wrote:
Siegurt wrote:Control+direction is definitely superior to walking back and forth.
I am not sure. When unseen horror is not adjacent, it's better to move away from it instead of attacking empty space, that makes it more likely to have it adjacent on next turn. It depends on attack speed though: bad idea with quickblade at min delay, good idea with exec. Axe at max delay.

Yes, sorry you're correct that was unclear, control+direction is definitely better if it might be next to you, walking away when it might be next to you isn't useful. Moving away when you just hit it (and it's had it's turn to be batty) might or might not be a good idea as you say.

As a tactic, walking back and forth in a corridor (like jkjkjkjk) regardless of the horror's last position is slightly worse than control+direction every turn, and optimizing for what kind of attack speed you have to increase your chances of getting additional hit is is superior to that.

Generally, I would avoid the fight entirely, and move to the next upstairs (or even downstairs) asap. Unseen horrors more often than not are left behind by stairs, and if not, you shake them going down again.

Majang wrote:Generally, I would avoid the fight entirely, and move to the next upstairs (or even downstairs) asap. Unseen horrors more often than not are left behind by stairs, and if not, you shake them going down again.

I agree.

you can easily park it upstairs. take it upstairs with you and descend the stairs. you can do same with imps, blink frogs etc

Shtopit wrote:
Majang wrote:Generally, I would avoid the fight entirely, and move to the next upstairs (or even downstairs) asap. Unseen horrors more often than not are left behind by stairs, and if not, you shake them going down again.

I agree.

I tried. But I had no scrolls of tele and was too far away from any stairs.

Something about sticky flame: I don't think it can miss, so it should be really good, if the monster is adjacent to you.

this is a lot of advice on how to kill a monster that is basically impossible to kill on D:5

The Tavern

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