Really?


If it doesn't fit anywhere else, it belongs here. Also, come here if you just need to get hammered.

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 176

Joined: Saturday, 25th March 2017, 16:51

Post Sunday, 4th March 2018, 22:13

Really?

  Code:
816 Xeom the Chopper (level 7, 0/62 HPs)
             Began as a Minotaur Berserker on Mar 4, 2018.
             Was a Priest of Trog.
             Slain by an unseen horror (3 damage)
             ... on level 5 of the Dungeon.
             The game lasted 00:12:26 (4995 turns).


Yes, D:5, and an unseen horror.
I'm afraid of these guys when I don't have Sinv on D:10-12!
User avatar

Pandemonium Purger

Posts: 1297

Joined: Wednesday, 11th April 2012, 02:42

Location: Sydney, Australia

Post Sunday, 4th March 2018, 23:03

Re: Really?

The Crawl wiki has good Unseen horror fighting/escaping tips:

http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Unseen_horror

To which I'd add:
* Allies can narrow down where an unseen horror is or isn't, or block it off so you can escape. Especially useful are Call Canine Familiar (sees invisible), Summon Lightning Spire (doesn't move), Summon Butterflies (super spammable)
* Unseen horrors can't fly, so if YOU can fly, deep water/lava can be used for an escape.

For this message the author Patashu has received thanks:
nago

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 176

Joined: Saturday, 25th March 2017, 16:51

Post Sunday, 4th March 2018, 23:24

Re: Really?

None of those methods helps a low level MiBe with no scrolls of teleport and very far away from exits.
I just leave (or widly swing an axe or one of the methods in the wiki) when I find one without sinv when I am of a highest level with higher AC/EV.
But on D:5 it feels particularly unfair.
User avatar

Vestibule Violator

Posts: 1495

Joined: Saturday, 18th June 2016, 13:57

Post Sunday, 4th March 2018, 23:28

Re: Really?

I would also add: all wands, if you can retreat to a corridor. Flame is the only one that might have too little power to achieve something, but the others should be able to kill, disable, or render visible an unseen horror.
I Feel the Need--the Need for Beer
Spoiler: show
3DsBeTr, 15DsFiRu, 3DsMoNe, 3FoHuGo, 3TrArOk, 3HOFEVe, 3MfGlOk, 4GrEEVe, 3BaIEChei, 3HuMoOka, 3MiWnQaz, 3VSFiAsh, 3DrTmMakh, 3DsCKXom, 3OgMoOka, 3NaFiOka, 3FoFiOka, 3MuFEVeh, 3CeHuOka, 3TrMoTSO, 3DEFESif
User avatar

Pandemonium Purger

Posts: 1297

Joined: Wednesday, 11th April 2012, 02:42

Location: Sydney, Australia

Post Sunday, 4th March 2018, 23:30

Re: Really?

Shtopit wrote:I would also add: all wands, if you can retreat to a corridor. Flame is the only one that might have too little power to achieve something, but the others should be able to kill, disable, or render visible an unseen horror.

Since I've never tried before, do hex wands work on something you can't see if you aim them at the right tile?

(I remember having trouble getting BVC to work on an invisible monster, is why I ask)

Dungeon Master

Posts: 587

Joined: Thursday, 23rd October 2014, 03:08

Post Sunday, 4th March 2018, 23:59

Re: Really?

yes, BVC is specifically coded to not work on things you can't see (so you don't walk away and deal damage out of LOS)
User avatar

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 3971

Joined: Wednesday, 23rd October 2013, 07:56

Post Monday, 5th March 2018, 00:01

Re: Really?

Patashu wrote:Since I've never tried before, do hex wands work on something you can't see if you aim them at the right tile?
Yes.

I assume this was just an OOD spawn (almost 5 000 turns and D:5).
HOFEMDHeHuReMDHuHOCjDsHuNaCjHuHuSENeGEFEMDBeDDFiHOWzVpVMHuEEHEMoDEHuDDAsHaBeKoAK
CeVMMfWnMiAKTeAMDrIEFoVMVSFiMuVMGhGlVpMoHaWrSpWzOgGlTrMoCeWnMfBeMiSkDrEEGrFiFoGlDgEnFeNe
OpGlHuSuDDArHaCKSpAEGrTmDgFEDsCjGhMoHuVMHaAMBaEnHuMoHOWnDsWzDDHuDgWnGnBeFeIEMiEnMfCj
User avatar

Pandemonium Purger

Posts: 1297

Joined: Wednesday, 11th April 2012, 02:42

Location: Sydney, Australia

Post Monday, 5th March 2018, 00:49

Re: Really?

Sprucery wrote:
Patashu wrote:Since I've never tried before, do hex wands work on something you can't see if you aim them at the right tile?
Yes.

I assume this was just an OOD spawn (almost 5 000 turns and D:5).


There's no respawn timer anymore, so the 'super OOD' mechanic no longer exists. You can still get stuff like ice beasts on D:2 though.
User avatar

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 3971

Joined: Wednesday, 23rd October 2013, 07:56

Post Monday, 5th March 2018, 01:03

Re: Really?

Yeah, I read in the changelog that the 'super OOD' mechanic is no more. I guess I have no clue how (if at all) the turn count affects the monsters generated currently...
HOFEMDHeHuReMDHuHOCjDsHuNaCjHuHuSENeGEFEMDBeDDFiHOWzVpVMHuEEHEMoDEHuDDAsHaBeKoAK
CeVMMfWnMiAKTeAMDrIEFoVMVSFiMuVMGhGlVpMoHaWrSpWzOgGlTrMoCeWnMfBeMiSkDrEEGrFiFoGlDgEnFeNe
OpGlHuSuDDArHaCKSpAEGrTmDgFEDsCjGhMoHuVMHaAMBaEnHuMoHOWnDsWzDDHuDgWnGnBeFeIEMiEnMfCj

bel

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1849

Joined: Tuesday, 3rd February 2015, 22:05

Post Monday, 5th March 2018, 10:39

Re: Really?

nvm

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1816

Joined: Thursday, 31st May 2012, 15:45

Post Monday, 5th March 2018, 13:24

Re: Really?

When I'm fighting an inv monster without SInv, I retreat to a corridor and then walk back and forth in that corridor.
Won (39). Remaining (22): Ba, Fe, Ko, Mu, Na, Op, newOg, Te; CK, Tm, AM, Wr, Su, AE, Ar; Ely, Jiyv, Qaz, Sif, WJC, Xom, Faded
User avatar

Blades Runner

Posts: 542

Joined: Monday, 24th April 2017, 11:46

Post Monday, 5th March 2018, 15:08

Re: Really?

Won't do you much good that early against an unseen horror.
Maɟaŋ

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5725

Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06

Post Monday, 5th March 2018, 16:43

Re: Really?

Majang wrote:Won't do you much good that early against an unseen horror.

It's possible for a strong character like a MiBe to beat an unseen horror at D:5 (XL7) by catching it in a corridor, typically it'd take a useful consumable of some sort (I'd probably blind quaff some potions if I didn't have anything useful identified) and even if you have some useful consumables and you've got a corridor to work with to limit it's movement, it's pretty dangerous, and has a significant chance of killing you. However, with those things, you have better odds then you do if you are swinging blindly in the open with no buffs. It's certainly not *automatic* death if you encounter one at that point in the game, and yes, killing/escaping one requires some luck at that point even if you do everything right and circumstances align in your favor.

It might have been inescapable in this case, it might not have, I don't know. He might also have done things as optimally as was possible under the circumstances and died anyway, I wasn't there. Even if he did do everything as optimally as possible and died, it's not out of place to give generally useful advice on how to deal with them.

If the OP *didn't* know that using a corridor to limit unseen horror's movement was a useful thing to do, then it certainly *does* do him some good, and if he already knew that, then it might help someone else who is a new player and reading these forums.

I'd would definitely agree that a D:5 unseen horror is at the higher end of the 'really nasty and likely to kill you' but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't take advantage of what opportunities you do have available to increase your odds.

Also, another sometimes-helpful fact is that unseen horrors can't open doors, it might or might not have been helpful in this case, but it's certainly a good-to-know thing when dealing with them.
Spoiler: show
This high quality signature has been hidden for your protection. To unlock it's secret, send 3 easy payments of $9.99 to me, by way of your nearest theta band or ley line. Complete your transmission by midnight tonight for a special free gift!

For this message the author Siegurt has received thanks: 2
Majang, stoneychips
User avatar

Pandemonium Purger

Posts: 1297

Joined: Wednesday, 11th April 2012, 02:42

Location: Sydney, Australia

Post Monday, 5th March 2018, 22:41

Re: Really?

MainiacJoe wrote:When I'm fighting an inv monster without SInv, I retreat to a corridor and then walk back and forth in that corridor.

You don't even need to 'walk back and forth'. Ctrl+dir will swing in a direction, attacking a monster if it's there, and waiting on the spot if it's not.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5185

Joined: Friday, 25th November 2011, 07:36

Post Monday, 5th March 2018, 22:49

Re: Really?

Patashu wrote:
MainiacJoe wrote:When I'm fighting an inv monster without SInv, I retreat to a corridor and then walk back and forth in that corridor.

You don't even need to 'walk back and forth'. Ctrl+dir will swing in a direction, attacking a monster if it's there, and waiting on the spot if it's not.


This is the method I use - it's great if you have a perfect hallway where the horror can only be on one single tile. I have used it in areas where I don't have as ideal cover, where the horror could be on 3 tiles. Just pick the middle tile and keep spamming ` (the repeat last action key, left of 1). Of course if you have 2 or 3 possible tiles the horror could be on, you'll need far higher stats, so this is good for those later horrors. You'll probably die without a full corridor if you find a horror on d:5 ;)

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5725

Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06

Post Monday, 5th March 2018, 23:27

Re: Really?

tasonir wrote:
Patashu wrote:
MainiacJoe wrote:When I'm fighting an inv monster without SInv, I retreat to a corridor and then walk back and forth in that corridor.

You don't even need to 'walk back and forth'. Ctrl+dir will swing in a direction, attacking a monster if it's there, and waiting on the spot if it's not.


This is the method I use - it's great if you have a perfect hallway where the horror can only be on one single tile. I have used it in areas where I don't have as ideal cover, where the horror could be on 3 tiles. Just pick the middle tile and keep spamming ` (the repeat last action key, left of 1). Of course if you have 2 or 3 possible tiles the horror could be on, you'll need far higher stats, so this is good for those later horrors. You'll probably die without a full corridor if you find a horror on d:5 ;)

Control+direction is definitely superior to walking back and forth.
Spoiler: show
This high quality signature has been hidden for your protection. To unlock it's secret, send 3 easy payments of $9.99 to me, by way of your nearest theta band or ley line. Complete your transmission by midnight tonight for a special free gift!
User avatar

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1709

Joined: Monday, 14th October 2013, 01:05

Post Tuesday, 6th March 2018, 01:50

Re: Really?

After successfully hitting it you should back up one tile before swinging again though.

bel

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1849

Joined: Tuesday, 3rd February 2015, 22:05

Post Tuesday, 6th March 2018, 02:07

Re: Really?

Scroll of fog can reveal location of unseen horror.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 3824

Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51

Post Tuesday, 6th March 2018, 06:21

Re: Really?

Siegurt wrote:
tasonir wrote:
Patashu wrote:[quote="MainiacJoe"]When I'm fighting an inv monster without SInv, I retreat to a corridor and then walk back and forth in that corridor.

You don't even need to 'walk back and forth'. Ctrl+dir will swing in a direction, attacking a monster if it's there, and waiting on the spot if it's not.


This is the method I use - it's great if you have a perfect hallway where the horror can only be on one single tile. I have used it in areas where I don't have as ideal cover, where the horror could be on 3 tiles. Just pick the middle tile and keep spamming ` (the repeat last action key, left of 1). Of course if you have 2 or 3 possible tiles the horror could be on, you'll need far higher stats, so this is good for those later horrors. You'll probably die without a full corridor if you find a horror on d:5 ;)

Control+direction is definitely superior to walking back and forth.[/quote]I am not sure. When unseen horror is not adjacent, it's better to move away from it instead of attacking empty space, that makes it more likely to have it adjacent on next turn. It depends on attack speed though: bad idea with quickblade at min delay, good idea with exec. Axe at max delay.
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
Overestimated: AC, GDS
Twin account of Sandman25
User avatar

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 3971

Joined: Wednesday, 23rd October 2013, 07:56

Post Tuesday, 6th March 2018, 07:01

Re: Really?

I think it is best to move away, then ctrl+dir back, rinse and repeat (if you have a very fast attack, you might ctrl+dir twice before moving away I guess). If you know how a bat moves, you know how an unseen horror moves.
HOFEMDHeHuReMDHuHOCjDsHuNaCjHuHuSENeGEFEMDBeDDFiHOWzVpVMHuEEHEMoDEHuDDAsHaBeKoAK
CeVMMfWnMiAKTeAMDrIEFoVMVSFiMuVMGhGlVpMoHaWrSpWzOgGlTrMoCeWnMfBeMiSkDrEEGrFiFoGlDgEnFeNe
OpGlHuSuDDArHaCKSpAEGrTmDgFEDsCjGhMoHuVMHaAMBaEnHuMoHOWnDsWzDDHuDgWnGnBeFeIEMiEnMfCj

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5725

Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06

Post Tuesday, 6th March 2018, 07:03

Re: Really?

VeryAngryFelid wrote:
Siegurt wrote:Control+direction is definitely superior to walking back and forth.
I am not sure. When unseen horror is not adjacent, it's better to move away from it instead of attacking empty space, that makes it more likely to have it adjacent on next turn. It depends on attack speed though: bad idea with quickblade at min delay, good idea with exec. Axe at max delay.

Yes, sorry you're correct that was unclear, control+direction is definitely better if it might be next to you, walking away when it might be next to you isn't useful. Moving away when you just hit it (and it's had it's turn to be batty) might or might not be a good idea as you say.

As a tactic, walking back and forth in a corridor (like jkjkjkjk) regardless of the horror's last position is slightly worse than control+direction every turn, and optimizing for what kind of attack speed you have to increase your chances of getting additional hit is is superior to that.
Spoiler: show
This high quality signature has been hidden for your protection. To unlock it's secret, send 3 easy payments of $9.99 to me, by way of your nearest theta band or ley line. Complete your transmission by midnight tonight for a special free gift!
User avatar

Blades Runner

Posts: 542

Joined: Monday, 24th April 2017, 11:46

Post Tuesday, 6th March 2018, 13:17

Re: Really?

Generally, I would avoid the fight entirely, and move to the next upstairs (or even downstairs) asap. Unseen horrors more often than not are left behind by stairs, and if not, you shake them going down again.
Maɟaŋ
User avatar

Vestibule Violator

Posts: 1495

Joined: Saturday, 18th June 2016, 13:57

Post Tuesday, 6th March 2018, 13:17

Re: Really?

Majang wrote:Generally, I would avoid the fight entirely, and move to the next upstairs (or even downstairs) asap. Unseen horrors more often than not are left behind by stairs, and if not, you shake them going down again.

I agree.
I Feel the Need--the Need for Beer
Spoiler: show
3DsBeTr, 15DsFiRu, 3DsMoNe, 3FoHuGo, 3TrArOk, 3HOFEVe, 3MfGlOk, 4GrEEVe, 3BaIEChei, 3HuMoOka, 3MiWnQaz, 3VSFiAsh, 3DrTmMakh, 3DsCKXom, 3OgMoOka, 3NaFiOka, 3FoFiOka, 3MuFEVeh, 3CeHuOka, 3TrMoTSO, 3DEFESif

Lair Larrikin

Posts: 24

Joined: Wednesday, 27th September 2017, 17:34

Post Wednesday, 7th March 2018, 09:21

Re: Really?

you can easily park it upstairs. take it upstairs with you and descend the stairs. you can do same with imps, blink frogs etc

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 176

Joined: Saturday, 25th March 2017, 16:51

Post Thursday, 8th March 2018, 00:32

Re: Really?

Shtopit wrote:
Majang wrote:Generally, I would avoid the fight entirely, and move to the next upstairs (or even downstairs) asap. Unseen horrors more often than not are left behind by stairs, and if not, you shake them going down again.

I agree.

I tried. But I had no scrolls of tele and was too far away from any stairs.
User avatar

Vestibule Violator

Posts: 1495

Joined: Saturday, 18th June 2016, 13:57

Post Saturday, 10th March 2018, 15:54

Re: Really?

Something about sticky flame: I don't think it can miss, so it should be really good, if the monster is adjacent to you.
I Feel the Need--the Need for Beer
Spoiler: show
3DsBeTr, 15DsFiRu, 3DsMoNe, 3FoHuGo, 3TrArOk, 3HOFEVe, 3MfGlOk, 4GrEEVe, 3BaIEChei, 3HuMoOka, 3MiWnQaz, 3VSFiAsh, 3DrTmMakh, 3DsCKXom, 3OgMoOka, 3NaFiOka, 3FoFiOka, 3MuFEVeh, 3CeHuOka, 3TrMoTSO, 3DEFESif

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8123

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Wednesday, 14th March 2018, 17:47

Re: Really?

this is a lot of advice on how to kill a monster that is basically impossible to kill on D:5

For this message the author duvessa has received thanks: 2
Majang, Zhorgal

Return to Crazy Yiuf's Corner

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by ST Software for PTF.