Most dangerous uniques (minus Sigmund)

[jackalKnight]

Who do you think are the most dangerous uniques in the early/mid game, excluding Sigmund?

My picks:

Menkaure. Immunity to Mephitic Cloud can make for some VERY bad situations if you're fighting him in conjunction with a horde and you have nowhere to run to easily. My best hope (if I don't have powerful Fire magic or a fire wand (is usually to run away or use a teleport scroll before he hastes himself. Early Torment is a colossal nightmare, especially for melee-oriented characters.
Dowan/Duvessa. Luckily they can be Mephitic'd, which can hurt their ability to tag team you effectively. Still, fighting off two uniques who are potentially dangerous on their own and who get a significant buff when the other dies can be extremely dangerous for alot of characters in their "developing" stage.
Erolcha. Early banishment is a nightmare, although the other spells aren't much tamer.
Gastronok. The most horrifying of them all. Can very easily kill most player characters at the level they typically encounter him, and a very nasty surprise when he shows up in the "no caster enemies" Lair.

[fspades]

Nessos: I HATE this guy. Words can't describe how much I loathe him. If I see him I'll ignore everyone else and use absolutely everything to kill him as fast as possible.

Sonja: Has curare needles. Can blink. Has a dagger of distortion and WILL banish you with it (because Crawl hates you). Need I say more?

Mennas: Don't bother. Just run. Never fight with him. They should write "not having to fight with Mennas" as a net gain for worshiping TSO.

Mara: She is tricky but not that extraordinarily hard to defeat if you know how

[joellercoaster]

My vote goes to Rupert, though Nikola and Boris have both marmalised me in extremely one-sided fashion before too.

[dtsund]

Nessos: I HATE this guy. Words can't describe how much I loathe him. If I see him I'll ignore everyone else and use absolutely everything to kill him as fast as possible.

Sonja: Has curare needles. Can blink. Has a dagger of distortion and WILL banish you with it (because Crawl hates you). Need I say more?

Nessos and Sonja, I think, should be disqualified on account of both having low MR. You'll usually be able to disable them with a wand by the time you meet them. Mennas is an absolute jerk, though.

Surprised nobody's mentioned Frederick, though. I've been oneshotted by him at least twice before.

[Sometimes]

Happy to report not only surviving my very first Mennas encounter, but hacking him to death in a sort-of-fair fight.
Saint Roka, on the other hand, is a goddamn smiting brick at the levels I tend to find him.

[danr]

I encountered Nikola for the first time recently and he never cast a single spell at me. I prepared myself cuz I knew he was tough, got on my rElec, potion of speed, etc., approached him, and killed him without really taking any damage.

Rupert I'm 1:1 against, but the loss was my own stupid fault.

[galehar]

Maurice can be really annoying if you lack sInv.

[lucy_ferre]

Mid game?

Mennas - Has a massive silence range and the ability to heal himself while silenced.
Mara - He can create a clone of you.
Erolcha - Some of her spell sets can be very deadly. Banishment, paralysis, crystal spear, and haste.
Nikola - He can instant-kill squishy characters with Chain Lightning.

[Kate]

Mennas can't heal himself while silenced (except in Sprint perhaps, where he does have the !sil flag I think), although he's plenty nasty anyway.

[lucy_ferre]

He did when my FeBe fought him. He managed to take one of my lives because of it. After that, I always managed to kill him before he could cast silence.

[jackalKnight]

Encountered Nessos on my DeVm run, but managed to survive him thanks to Mephitic. He hits hard but isn't the instadeath machine that Erolcha can be, at least with the types of characters I use.

Erolcha is a nightmare even if she doesn't have banishment for almost any build.

I've gotten better vs. Menkaure since I started doing the "run away until much stronger" tactic, which is usually effective vs. him since he's Naga-slow. I suspect he'd still be nasty for early Chei worshippers though.

[Zooty]

Usually Kirke is mostly a speedbump, but with low MR she can be nasty. I found this out with a promising DSNe who got porkelated and had his exit route blocked. No spells, no items, no abilities and lousy attack meant that he barely made it to stairs, only to be bitten to death by the only hog who managed to follow.

[szanth]

Augh, yeah, Kirke. *sigh* She caused the only death that I got indignant enough to save-scum for.

[Grimm]

only to be bitten to death by the only hog who managed to follow

Swine-on-swine violence is a true Crawl tragedy. My condolences.

[vladimirdx]

Surprised no one mentioned Aizul. He was a lot more dangerous when he appeared higher up, I guess.
Rupert, Mara, and Saint Roka, as well.

Nikola - He can instant-kill squishy characters with Chain Lightning.

Squishy means "around 135 HP," right? He killed a character with that much the turn I entered his LOS. I fear him more than any other unique because of that one unpleasant encounter.

[joellercoaster]

Signs that my character is now noticeably more powerful than any of my previous characters: Steamrolling Azrael and Saint Roka in quick succession.

Signs that I shouldn't get carried away: Getting fought to a standstill by Snorg and a few elves and having to scarper

[Stormfox]

Getting fought to a standstill by Snorg and a few elves and having to scarper :oops:

Snorg is payback for all the times that Brothers in Arms calls in a troll to save your life.

[daniel_charms]

Wiglaf in trunk. It's so damn easy to underestimate him - "A fat dwarf? Who reeks of alcohol? I can't see what's so special about him, should be a pushover". And then he goes might+haste on you and then you panic and start running away, forgetting about all the useful stuff you have that you could use for escaping (like Blink)...and then you're dead.

[Morosgovanyi]

Erolcha
Very scary because of the banish attack and also ugly and fat. Frightening.

Nessos
Lightning-speed arrows, poison, scrolls catching fire.. managing to berserkbeating him at almost death then he blinks away then three turns and he's well regenerated and I'm slow, red-level poisoned and dying.

.. Jessica!
Can't say how many times she fried me to death. Maybe because I still tend to undervalue her and just follow her.. blink, magic flame, magic flame, and I'm dead.

[joellercoaster]

I've gotten better vs. Menkaure since I started doing the "run away until much stronger" tactic, which is usually effective vs. him since he's Naga-slow. I suspect he'd still be nasty for early Chei worshippers though.

I play with Chei a lot, and have never encountered him at a level where I had enough Ponderousness for it to be a problem. He seems to get generated too early (if such a thing can be said of a unique who Torments and has a death curse). Like you, I just run for it and come back later.

On the subject of *not* dangerous uniques, I just encountered Dowan and Duvessa - after having crushed Azrael and Nessos in tandem some minutes earlier. Some times I misjudge my branch ordering a little

[TwilightPhoenix]

Ijyb if he spawns early with a wand. Once he was carrying a Wand of Disintegration on D2. Needless to say, that character was splattered all across that room.

Also, Prince Ribbit can be a nightmare if he pops up too early. Moves fast, blinks, and has too much health for a lowbie to kill. If you don't have Mephetic... good luck.

And finally, Duvessa... to her brother Dowan. I accidentally clicked the wrong wand and used Enslavement instead. It worked.

[Curio]

And finally, Duvessa... to her brother Dowan. I accidentally clicked the wrong wand and used Enslavement instead. It worked.

Funny. Did she berserked then and committed suicide?

[Stormfox]

Relative to his depth, Grum is also no joke (though a step down from Prince Ribbit). War dogs are a huge step up from hounds, and he's usually got a weapon of misery.

[Zchris13]

Rupert is Lair Sigmund.
Grinder is New Sigmund.
Erolcha is Banish Sigmund.
Nikola is Electric Sigmund.
Boris is IRON BOLT DRAIN CRYSTAL SPEAR LOL HI IM BORIS Sigmund.
Nessos is Centaur Sigmund.

Did I forget any?

[mageykun]

Rupert is Lair Sigmund.
Grinder is New Sigmund.
Erolcha is Banish Sigmund.
Nikola is Electric Sigmund.
Boris is IRON BOLT DRAIN CRYSTAL SPEAR LOL HI IM BORIS Sigmund.
Nessos is Centaur Sigmund.

Did I forget any?

When the arena was first added as a menu choice, I had a weird idea. You could measure the strength of monsters relative to each other. All one needed, in fine scientific tradition, was an arbitrary unit named taken from someone's name.

As should be obvious, I chose the Sigmund as the natural unit of monster power.

One Sigmund was equivalent to anything that had a 50% chance of taking on Sigmund in a one on one fight (obviously, Sigmund has a 50-50 chance of defeating Sigmund). Something that had a 50-50 chance vs 2 Sigmunds was worth 2 Sigmunds, etc. If it takes 2 somethings for a 50% to take Sigmund, then it's rated at 1/2 Sigmunds. Etc. You get the idea.

While the concept of an arbitrary numerical measurement of monster threat was, frankly, hilarious (Goblin, 1/5 Sigmunds! Mara, 137 Sigmunds!) it didn't happen. It would have taken way to long to run all the arenas to get the data, and you'd need to run each combination multiple times to get statistically significant percentages. Even with just the unique it's kinda ridiculous. Maybe if you could automate the matches (give the arena a long list to run), and if the dang thing actually kept a log of multiple results instead of writing them over each time. Also, there's the slight problem of scaling- as monsters get stronger a numerical advantage means less and less. Realistically, you'd probably need some kind of log scale with unit steps to match it right- start with 1 Sigmund , then a Erolcha = 10^1 Sigmunds, Nikola = 10^2 Sigmunds, Mara = 10^3 Sigmunds... etc (picking names at almost random). Dunno. Way too much research just to post "hey, lol, I have a list of things in Sigmunds".

...that's 23 Sigmunds in one post. Way too many that it.

[Sjohara]

Rupert is Lair Sigmund.
Grinder is New Sigmund.
Erolcha is Banish Sigmund.
Nikola is Electric Sigmund.
Boris is IRON BOLT DRAIN CRYSTAL SPEAR LOL HI IM BORIS Sigmund.
Nessos is Centaur Sigmund.

Did I forget any?

Mara has probably earned Vault Sigmund.

[Grimm]

a list of things in Sigmunds

Maybe a group effort could get this done.

[Kate]

Although it doesn't measure things in Sigmunds, a while ago somebody ran a uniques tournament on termcast. The results are up here, it was pretty cool.

[smeej]

I'm determining Sigmund values right now. It's fun and informative! This information should go on the info bot.

Pikel and Prince Ribbit inspire a lot of caution in my early adventurers.

[Stormfox]

Rupert is Lair Sigmund.
Grinder is New Sigmund.
Erolcha is Banish Sigmund.
Nikola is Electric Sigmund.
Boris is IRON BOLT DRAIN CRYSTAL SPEAR LOL HI IM BORIS Sigmund.
Nessos is Centaur Sigmund.

Did I forget any?

Mara has probably earned Vault Sigmund.

At least in Vault you have corners to work with. Try fighting Mara in Shoals. (Mara == Shoals Boris?)

For the record, I'm 1-0 under those circumstances, but it took a hell of a lot of luck.

[Grimm]

Crawl is roguelike Sigmund.

[smeej]

Blork the orc when he has a +4 +2 broad axe of chopping, apparently.

[whelen]

I'll second Aizul. In 0.7 his setup is absurd: fast guardian naga with high hp that can sleep you, along with an unresistable projectile attack that can do 40+ damage per turn.

Honorable mentions to the Lernaean Hydra, Snorg, and Crazy Yiuf's quarterstaff of chaos.

[szanth]

Nonono. This isn't supposed to turn into a list of all the uniques and why each individual ones are dangerous. >_>

This is the MOST dangerous uniques. I've never died to Aizul. I've never been threatened by him. Snorg, though, that guy is ridiculous. I don't see Yuif belonging on the list.

[Grimm]

Snorg's just doing what he can to get by.

[dassem]

Nonono. This isn't supposed to turn into a list of all the uniques and why each individual ones are dangerous. >_>

This is the MOST dangerous uniques. I've never died to Aizul. I've never been threatened by him. Snorg, though, that guy is ridiculous. I don't see Yuif belonging on the list.

Maybe that’s an answer to your question?
A lot of the uniques can be a nightmare if they hit an early character who’s vulnerable to their methods; yet be a breeze for another character with the right resistances, the right long-range attack, or just with 2 more XLs and a potion of speed…

For me, I think it’s the ones that do unexpected things:

• Kirke has never killed me but has porkolated me, meaning escape was down to luck. Hillarious!
• St Rocka has finished me once or twice, at least partly due to a big crowd of allies, an unexpectedly sharp axe, and long range smiting as I stage a “strategic withdrawal”.
• Mara is just nasty.
• Mennas almost sliced my current HOPr. I had nearly finished him in melee, but was getting too low on HP, decided to back out, level up, and return later. So I tried reading a scroll of teleport…

[danr]

Any unique can be the most dangerous depending when you meet them and with what character / build / skills / level / equipment / god / piety / spells.

Or do you just mean in absolute terms, which ones would give even a XL27 character worries?

[OneTrueFelid]

Sigmund is really a joke with most characters. By far, the more dangerous early game unique is Grinder, who has paralysis, a guaranteed pain-branded weapon, and pain. He has more MR, HD, HP, AC, and base damage than Sigmund, and his set of spells is by and away far better than the overhyped yellow @. The blue 5 is what you should truly fear!

[galehar]

Sigmund is really a joke with most characters. By far, the more dangerous early game unique is Grinder, who has paralysis, a guaranteed pain-branded weapon, and pain. He has more MR, HD, HP, AC, and base damage than Sigmund, and his set of spells is by and away far better than the overhyped yellow @. The blue 5 is what you should truly fear!

On D:3, Grinder is probably more dangerous, but Sigmund can show up on D:2 (Sigmund has depth 2-7, Grinder 3-6). Also, Grinder used to be a pushover in 0.7. He has been buffed and moved to shallower depth. I guess he kills many players who underestimate him and should have fled.

[casmith789]

If you're unspoiled, the many ridiculously high OP uniques like Margery, Xtahua, Nikola. But with the right resistances they're easy.

Most dangerous for me, Agnes. That thing is crazy, speed 18 O_o.

Aizul too, really hard to escape and a ton of damage.

Mennas is just annoying rather than dangerous. Impossible to kill but you should be able to just run away.

Wiglaf is exceedingly dangerous now, might is far too OP on monsters.

Oh and of course Rupert, Louise, Erolcha, Norris because MR balance is broken in the game.

[tcjsavannah]

I finally have a SETm decent build going (level 18) .. and what's waiting for me on Vault: 1?

Mara -and- Aizul.

[varkarrus]

Xom.

Damn bastard keeps stealing my clothes while I shower.

(In all seriousness... I'd say Mork the Ork. I can only seem to kill him with magic, and I usually play as a troll berserker nowadays.)

[Stormfox]

(In all seriousness... I'd say Mork the Ork. I can only seem to kill him with magic, and I usually play as a troll berserker nowadays.)

Damn. Playing for all these years and I am only NOW getting that joke. Now the rainbow suspenders make sense. Thank you, sir.

[danr]

The most dangerous unique is the one you underestimate, or the one who spawns the most OOD and that your character is least prepared to fight in terms of resistances and appropriate attacks.

They can all kill you quite easily, it's really the circumstances that dictate how dangerous a given unique is.

[mumra]

Who do you think are the most dangerous uniques in the early/mid game, excluding Sigmund?

I don't really find Sigmund that dangerous, but I mostly play spellcasters. He can be taken down from range with a hits. Mephitic Cloud makes it even easier. I think I've only ever lost about 3 characters to him, even when he spawns on D:2.

[whelen]

Nessos, Harold, Snorg, Gastronok, and Urug just spawned for me on a single level (which also contains the entrance to the lair). What the heck.

[Curio]

Nessos, Harold, Snorg, Gastronok, and Urug just spawned for me on a single level (which also contains the entrance to the lair). What the heck.

They gathered for a poker night. Gastronok was sent for beer as always. Maybe that's why they so freaking pissed off when they meet you.