The Tavern

Is there any reason for scarabs not to be flying?
They spawn as hostile mobs in locations without deep water or lava (Tomb and one Spider rune vault). So, this limitation doesn't affect them as hostile mobs. They also can be made with player's spell Infestation. Again, usually this limitation doesn't mean anything, except making the spell less convenient for players who can fly or travel around with Passage of Golubria in some locations, notably, Gehenna and Cocytus. By my experience it doesn't make the game more challenging, but forces a choice between abandoning scarabs, taking a longer route around, or memorizing recall, which actually is a no-brainer:

If it's Coc:1-6, then abandoning isn't problematic, you can always make more.
If it's final floor, I want to take as much of scarabs to the final boss as possible - if not to kill, then at least to maximize the chance of slowing them down.
Recall is never an option because it takes away spell levels from other, more valuable and versatile spells.

Flying mobs like shrikes move into scarabs' reach anyway. Hellions in controllable numbers rarely spawn on remote islands. So, does this limitation exist for any reason except prolonging time spent in hell?

It makes killing enemy scarabs with earth magic super convenient.

There should be a flavour-related reason for them not to fly. Scarabs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarabaeus_sacer) are dung beetles, and if they are actually able to fly at some stage (I don't know), they rarely do.

How do you know if they rarely fly or not if you dont even know if they can fly at all?` Protip, they can : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2owjAJ5hho

Also, changing things to make a fantasy computer game more realistic is terrible game design.

Depends on the scarab, actually. Most can fly, but some are flightless because their forewings are fused in the middle.

I'm not clear on why you want to add flying to scarabs. Is the reason just lore, or is there a game balance reason too? It seems you think there would be no real change from the scarabs getting flight.

I think Lavandula is particularly interested in the ally-version of scarabs. Flying would make them way cool. But, as NhorianScum pointed out, there are also enemy scarabs, mostly in the Tomb. A popular way to deal with the Tomb is Shattering the place to rubble, including its scarabs. Already now bennus make that a bit difficult; adding the armies of scarabs that swarm you there to the fly-list doesn't help.

NhorianScum wrote:It makes killing enemy scarabs with earth magic super convenient.

Personally I think it is stupid that flying reduces shatter damage in the first place.

Flavourwise, imagine yourself in an earthquake with both feet on the ground, and then in a flying helicopter.

In terms of game design, it is the balancing element analogous to fire resistance vs. Firestorm and cold resistance vs. Glaciate. It is also mirrored by the fact that Tornado is more effective against flying monsters. Without this limitation, Shatter would be ridiculously overpowered.

Conclusion: it is not stupid, but makes sense on every level.

It is also mirrored by the fact that Tornado is more effective against flying monsters.

I don't think this is true. By the way Tornado mades things fly so it would be more effective against everything by itself.

Without this limitation, Shatter would be ridiculously overpowered.

Its damage could be reworked to be "sufficiently useful" against everything - such as Tornado - instead of being obscenely powerful against 1% of monsters by the time it's reasonable to cast it and utterly useless agains the rest. (ok some combo can get it reasonably for V:5 and Zot but that's all).

nago wrote:
It is also mirrored by the fact that Tornado is more effective against flying monsters.

I don't think this is true. By the way Tornado mades things fly so it would be more effective against everything by itself.

Looks like you are right about this. Don't know where I got this idea. Sorry.

I still believe that the number of monsters fully affected by Shatter is much larger than 1%, even in the extended game. You'd be surprised what all doesn't fly - not just Greater Mummies, but even some late bosses like Cerebov. But it is ceratainly useful to have another high-end spell for those monsters not responding well to Shatter.

Shatter is pretty good in extended if you're not filled with the senseless urge to kill all the things.

NhorianScum wrote:Shatter is pretty good in extended if you're not filled with the senseless urge to kill all the things.

What do you mean? Rune-stealing?

NhorianScum wrote:Shatter is pretty good in extended if you're not filled with the senseless urge to kill all the things.

Not senseless. Only what I kill gives me experience. Only experience makes me grow. I want to grow even in the extended game.

VeryAngryFelid wrote:
NhorianScum wrote:Shatter is pretty good in extended if you're not filled with the senseless urge to kill all the things.

What do you mean? Rune-stealing?

Pretty much.

LRD can obviously do the same thing but it's way slower and can be cast by servitor. Shatter enables a fully mutilated spellforge spellist (one that doesn't interfere with scritters/gateway or outright murder you) without sacrificing utility so it's indirectly really good at smacking the shit out out of birds.There's enough brilliance in the game to enable shatter every time you care about it so the exp invest is comperable to a high power lrd.

To digress, there are spell schools and L8/L9's that could use a buff but earth/necro are definitely not on that list. Also flying scarabs sound like satan, plzno.

Edit: By the time you're casting infestation you can cast recall off spellcasting alone, by the time terrain interactions matter yspellslots are a non-issue. The mild inconvenience of casting recall is nothing compared to the raw tedium of... actually using infestation in every single fight X.x.

Necro already has a busted flyer generating spell that slows things and has excelent QOL.

Majang wrote:
nago wrote:
It is also mirrored by the fact that Tornado is more effective against flying monsters.

I don't think this is true. By the way Tornado mades things fly so it would be more effective against everything by itself.

Looks like you are right about this. Don't know where I got this idea.

Because Airstrike is more effective against flying monsters and Tornado seems a little like Airstrike's beefy cousin? And the "normally flying monsters take extra damage even though Tornado makes other monsters fly too" would not count as an even remotely odd spell mechanic in Crawl tbh.

I generally expect spells to have weird special case things because so many of them do.

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