[New Species] Werewolf!


If it doesn't fit anywhere else, it belongs here. Also, come here if you just need to get hammered.

Lair Larrikin

Posts: 15

Joined: Wednesday, 12th July 2017, 13:59

Post Friday, 21st July 2017, 12:32

[New Species] Werewolf!

This is a rough sketch, as I am pretty unfamiliar with Crawl balancing, but the main idea is to have a species with two alternate forms that manipulate aptitudes and change playstyle (a different form of hybrid!). Basically, as a humanoid, you are more of a spellcaster (albeit a mediocre one). As a werewolf, you cannot cast spells, but are more of a melee fighter. The idea for late game is to use utility spells and charms to get into a good position, buff yourself, and then transform into a werewolf. However, elemental magic and necromancy are also viable options.

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Werewolf

Medium size
+1 to a random stat every 4th level
Average hit points
+3 magic resistance per level
Can only wear Robes for body armour, cannot wear gloves
Cannot worship Trog: Trog considers werewolf transformation to be spellcasting

Humanoid aptitudes:
Fighting: -3
Short blades: -1
Long blades: -1
Axes: -1
Maces & Flails: -1
Polearms: -1
Staves: 0
Unarmed Combat: -1

Throwing: -1
Slings: -2
Bows: -2
Crossbows: -2

Armour: 0
Dodging: -1
Stealth: -1
Shields: -1

Fire Magic: 0
Ice Magic: 0
Air Magic: 0
Earth Magic: +1
Poison Magic: -1

Spellcasting: -1
Conjurations: -1
Hexes: -2
Charms: +2
Summonings: +1
Necromancy: 0
Translocations: +1
Transmutation: -3

Invocations: 0
Evocations: 0

Experience: 1

Special ability: Transform
Transforms the humanoid into a werewolf for (level*2)+1 turns, cancelling any potential other transmutation forms. The transformation cannot be ended manually, but has to expire. After the transformation ends, the humanoid is Exhausted for level+1 turns. During Exhaustion, transforming into a werewolf is not possible.
Gains: Fast 1, Carnivorous 1, Claws 2, AC +(2+1 every five levels), HP+10%
Weapons and shield meld while transformed, cannot cast spells while transformed, cannot use evocables while transformed, cannot be slowed while transformed
Being a werewolf produces the following changes to aptitudes:

Fighting: +2
Unarmed Combat: +1

Throwing: +1
Shields: -3

Dodging: +1
Stealth: +2
Fire Magic: -3 -2
Ice Magic: -3 -2
Air Magic: -3 -2
Earth Magic: -3 -2
Poison Magic: -3 -3

Spellcasting: -4
Conjurations: -4 -3
Hexes: -4 -3
Charms: 0
Summonings: -2 -1
Necromancy: -3 -2
Translocations: -2 -1
Transmutations: -5 -4
Last edited by grindst0ne on Friday, 21st July 2017, 15:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Tartarus Sorceror

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Joined: Monday, 14th October 2013, 01:05

Post Friday, 21st July 2017, 13:11

Re: [New Species] Werewolf!

Seems like it overlaps a whole lot with transmutation casters, except you only use one form and your aptitudes change.

I doubt it would be worth it to split your XP between two different offensive skills to the degree where it would be viable to really play like a dedicated spellcaster and then also use unarmed. This would be a species where you would start each fight in human form, cast low spellpower summon spells/charms/hexes, and then go werewolf form.

For this message the author Shard1697 has received thanks: 3
Gigaslurp, nago, VeryAngryFelid

Cocytus Succeeder

Posts: 2223

Joined: Sunday, 18th December 2011, 13:31

Post Friday, 21st July 2017, 13:49

Re: [New Species] Werewolf!

I doubt this will ever evolve more from a brainstorm idea, but some small advices to polish it (plus all Shard1697 said):

After the transformation ends, the humanoid is Exhausted for level+1 turns


This is wrong, unless you want to make this form less usable (or force more resting) at higher levels.

Fast 1


This is questionable, as giving fast 1 on a form make it desiderable\usable just to escape\repositioning (e.g. spider form lost fast 1).

Carnivorous 1


This is bad as incentivates to transform at the end of a combat just to engorge.

Spellcasting: -4
Conjurations: -4
Hexes: -4
Charms: 0
Summonings: -2
Necromancy: -3
Translocations: -2
Transmutations: -5


Why change magical apts? They aren't usable anyway
Also a point for not changing psychical apts too: it means a lot of message spam each transform.
If you wanna to incentivate UC just give claws, set UC to 0 both to human and werewolf form. Similarly, for fighting set it to +0 and if you really want give +10/20% hp bonus to werewolf form. Etc
screw it I hate this character I'm gonna go melee Gastronok

For this message the author nago has received thanks:
Gigaslurp

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1217

Joined: Sunday, 14th April 2013, 04:01

Post Friday, 21st July 2017, 13:58

Re: [New Species] Werewolf!

Werewolf has come up a few times, and I personally think the only way to make it work is having it as an involuntary mutation, X turns in combat or taking X damage or something along those lines.
Three wins: Gargoyle Earth Elementalist of Ash, Ogre Fighter of Ru, Deep Dwarf Fighter of Makhleb (0.16 bugbuild :( )

Lair Larrikin

Posts: 15

Joined: Wednesday, 12th July 2017, 13:59

Post Friday, 21st July 2017, 15:26

Re: [New Species] Werewolf!

Cheers for the feedback guys!

nago wrote:I doubt this will ever evolve more from a brainstorm idea, but some small advices to polish it (plus all Shard1697 said):

After the transformation ends, the humanoid is Exhausted for level+1 turns


This is wrong, unless you want to make this form less usable (or force more resting) at higher levels.


Yeah, the idea was to force alternating between forms, and to prevent spamming the werewolf transformation. It's also a bit in line with how werewolves work (they only transform for limited periods).

nago wrote:
Fast 1


This is questionable, as giving fast 1 on a form make it desiderable\usable just to escape\repositioning (e.g. spider form lost fast 1).


Well, I did have escaping as an option in mind, but yeah - it might be too broken and could be removed. The AC bonus is already pretty helpful for escaping, I guess. HP bonus (like you suggest below) also seems cool.

nago wrote:
Carnivorous 1


This is bad as incentivates to transform at the end of a combat just to engorge.


Yeah, that would be bad. However, I think that by including the Exhaust state after transforms, any such incentive is effectively removed.

nago wrote:
Spellcasting: -4
Conjurations: -4
Hexes: -4
Charms: 0
Summonings: -2
Necromancy: -3
Translocations: -2
Transmutations: -5


Why change magical apts? They aren't usable anyway
Also a point for not changing psychical apts too: it means a lot of message spam each transform.


Well, the idea was that being in Werewolf form means you train less effectively as a spellcaster. That way, you'd have a reason to figure out if a fight would be good to take on as a spellcaster or in werewolf form. However, I definitely agree this does need a lot of fleshing out (if it's viable), and is tricky to balance!

nago wrote:If you wanna to incentivate UC just give claws, set UC to 0 both to human and werewolf form. Similarly, for fighting set it to +0 and if you really want give +10/20% hp bonus to werewolf form. Etc


I thought it would be cool to use staves in humanoid form (channeling, casting), and unarmed combat in werewolf form, that was the main idea there. The HP bonus is a good addition instead of Haste 1!

Edit: I guess a (maybe minor) problem is that at some point (e.g. extended), being a werewolf might be subservient to being something like a Lich or whatever else.
Last edited by grindst0ne on Friday, 21st July 2017, 15:43, edited 1 time in total.

Lair Larrikin

Posts: 15

Joined: Wednesday, 12th July 2017, 13:59

Post Friday, 21st July 2017, 15:28

Re: [New Species] Werewolf!

Shard1697 wrote:Seems like it overlaps a whole lot with transmutation casters, except you only use one form and your aptitudes change.

I doubt it would be worth it to split your XP between two different offensive skills to the degree where it would be viable to really play like a dedicated spellcaster and then also use unarmed. This would be a species where you would start each fight in human form, cast low spellpower summon spells/charms/hexes, and then go werewolf form.


Yeah, it's a bit like a transmuter who dedicates himself to one form. Kind of like the D&D werewolf druid (a la Baldurs Gate), who gives up a lot of his forms just for the Werewolf form, although that wasn't really an inspiration.

The playstyle you describe is also what I had in mind. I do agree that maybe the aptitude changes are too severe (it's better to stay conservative).

Lair Larrikin

Posts: 15

Joined: Wednesday, 12th July 2017, 13:59

Post Friday, 21st July 2017, 15:35

Re: [New Species] Werewolf!

Far-fetched brainstorm: to make dealing with the changes in aptitudes less of a hassle, the Werewolf could have a separate aptitude sheet (i.e., the same overview, but accessible with a shortcut, like "modified" or "enhanced", but then "werewolf").
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Blades Runner

Posts: 568

Joined: Wednesday, 5th March 2014, 03:52

Post Wednesday, 26th July 2017, 05:15

Re: [New Species] Werewolf

I was thinking about wewewolves too. Here's what I came up with: You can either be a troll with uncurable berzerkitis or a slow human. Unarmed combat in one form would crosstrain with weapon skill in the other, spriggan restriction on armor for both.
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Lair Larrikin

Posts: 16

Joined: Tuesday, 28th March 2017, 22:35

Post Thursday, 27th July 2017, 18:08

Re: [New Species] Werewolf!

Transformation is incredibly complicated mechanically but effectively just seems to be a weaker Berserk. Would be interested in seeing a lot of the cruft paired down in favor of a more simplified implementation (active for claws + damage and health boost or similar, maybe scale with skill levels if you want to keep the "combat skills are worth more in Werewolf" without requiring 2 entirely separate aptitude tables). Like the concept and think there's room for a species with an ability like this but this is just too convoluted at the moment.

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