Ease of use improvements needed in .21


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Post Saturday, 15th July 2017, 19:29

Ease of use improvements needed in .21

* Wand stacking
* remove butchering, monsters just drop chunks
* (could instead remove chunks)
* (could instead remove food)
* ammo mulch rate to 100%, increase ammo supplies accordingly
* (could also remove launcher ammo)
* when an item or corpse would land on a doorway, it lands adjacent instead.

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Post Saturday, 15th July 2017, 22:48

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

* make Jiyva a temple god
* show Pan lord abilities in xv
* show damage done by player
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Post Sunday, 16th July 2017, 02:18

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

Wands Id from floor
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Post Monday, 17th July 2017, 14:18

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

Anything to give more inventory space. Make scrolls and potions go into a different non-restricted 'bag' or something.

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Post Sunday, 23rd July 2017, 01:15

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

Picking up and dropping items should take 0 time. Besides the obvious benefit, this also means we can throw out everything related to turning autopickup on and off for invisible monsters.

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Post Sunday, 23rd July 2017, 09:40

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

How do you handle directly dropping chunks and necromancy, though?

- You can see the content of piles without climbing on top of them, if they are in your vision.
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Post Sunday, 23rd July 2017, 10:27

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

Corpseless necromancy is totally possible. You just use death channel style mechanics but throw in a roll for whether a corpse is dropped. Adjust kiku to simply drop undead appropriate to the active necro spell, chunks if none. Corpse rot could be removed or rolled into some new kiku ability.
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Post Sunday, 23rd July 2017, 17:57

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

R E M O V E
H U N G E R

R E M O V E
~ F O O D ~

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Post Monday, 24th July 2017, 08:57

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

You could even just remove hunger and ignore food.

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Post Tuesday, 25th July 2017, 01:47

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

A visual indicator for when monsters are corroded.

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Post Tuesday, 25th July 2017, 14:55

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

Rast wrote:Picking up and dropping items should take 0 time. Besides the obvious benefit, this also means we can throw out everything related to turning autopickup on and off for invisible monsters.


I once made it to a portal, examined it with xv, saw no indication it was almost gone, dropped 5 items, and it closed. So yeah I'm in favor.

I don't see how removing food/hunger could be a net win for the game. At that point the only thing pushing the player forward would be the OOD timer.
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Post Tuesday, 25th July 2017, 14:57

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

If there were no monster respawns, then there would be no point in hanging around.

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Post Tuesday, 25th July 2017, 16:02

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

Skill menu setting, "Train this, and turn off training at level X"
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Post Tuesday, 25th July 2017, 17:44

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

Cease the "no target in view" thing when you can see the silhouette.
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Post Tuesday, 25th July 2017, 17:46

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

mattlistener wrote:I don't see how removing food/hunger could be a net win for the game. At that point the only thing pushing the player forward would be the OOD timer.
http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Scumming


Why not just nerf scumming tactics instead? Food's entirely ineffective as a clock for any competent player who isn't scumming. I'd much rather just fix the handful of infinitely farmable areas left in the game (no OOD spawns, pan/abyss enemies are durable summons, no item generation outside of vaults in infinite levels, fix Xom gifts).


On-topic: Remove curses & ID all gear from floor. Would require some Ash changes but this is long overdue.
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Post Wednesday, 26th July 2017, 14:30

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

Remove common non-consumable items from shops. It's not like anybody ever bought a +0 dagger.

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Post Thursday, 27th July 2017, 03:40

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

Make Confuse not autotarget already confused monsters.
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Post Thursday, 27th July 2017, 03:58

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

Lavandula wrote:Remove common non-consumable items from shops. It's not like anybody ever bought a +0 dagger.


I'll buy +0 aux armors if I haven't found them yet, although I guess those depend on your definition of "common". Admittedly though, the vast majority of +0 junk in shops is pointless clutter.

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Post Thursday, 27th July 2017, 07:17

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

Just like the vast majority of all items that exist in the game

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Post Thursday, 27th July 2017, 21:06

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

Gigaslurp wrote:
mattlistener wrote:I don't see how removing food/hunger could be a net win for the game. At that point the only thing pushing the player forward would be the OOD timer.
http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Scumming


Why not just nerf scumming tactics instead? Food's entirely ineffective as a clock for any competent player who isn't scumming. I'd much rather just fix the handful of infinitely farmable areas left in the game (no OOD spawns, pan/abyss enemies are durable summons, no item generation outside of vaults in infinite levels, fix Xom gifts).


On-topic: Remove curses & ID all gear from floor. Would require some Ash changes but this is long overdue.

I think the biggest remaining problem with it is that it might make highly annoying tactics optimal. The one I've seen cited is sitting and waiting in a single room with the stairs and waiting for thousands of turns for a monster to wander into your room. I'm not sure how to address that but I kinda think that goldified permafood is the way to go - removing any of the interactivity with player abilities (like food for attacking, casting, etc) and make it purely an aut clock would be fine.

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Post Friday, 28th July 2017, 00:01

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

  Code:
"Partly explored, can't reach some places."

For the love of God, give me a keystroke that shows me where I'm blocked from auto-exploring!!!
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Post Friday, 28th July 2017, 14:06

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

johlstei wrote:
Gigaslurp wrote:
mattlistener wrote:I kinda think that goldified permafood is the way to go - removing any of the interactivity with player abilities (like food for attacking, casting, etc) and make it purely an aut clock would be fine.

Would also need to get rid of hunger attacks probably. Are the ghosts the only ones left?
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Post Friday, 28th July 2017, 14:31

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

MainiacJoe wrote:Skill menu setting, "Train this, and turn off training at level X"


I wish for this every game. I don't want checking skills to be about avoiding unintentional over-skilling. I want to look at them, make some decisions about how high to get certain skills, and then not look at them until new decisions are needed.
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Post Saturday, 29th July 2017, 00:24

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

* For stackable items, shops should show how many of that item the player already has.

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Post Sunday, 30th July 2017, 17:45

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

Be able to see all spells that exist on the game. Right now, searching for spells will give you all spellbooks. But I want to see what spells actually exist and, when I select a spell, which books I know carry it and where they are.

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Post Sunday, 30th July 2017, 18:31

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

Remove spellbooks as inventory items, add all found spells to the M menu.
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Post Sunday, 30th July 2017, 18:35

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

get rid of the fucking plants in lair

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Post Sunday, 30th July 2017, 19:02

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

Shtopit wrote:Remove spellbooks as inventory items, add all found spells to the M menu.

It would be better, but even in that case, my suggestion makes sense for spellbooks in stores.

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Post Monday, 31st July 2017, 20:25

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

duvessa wrote:get rid of the fucking plants in lair

Why?

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Post Monday, 31st July 2017, 21:33

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

they break autoexplore and create degenerate tactics and suck

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Post Tuesday, 1st August 2017, 00:37

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

1. Fix it so plants which would make portions of the level disconnected connected don't place. Except that dire elephant ending where the plants are intended.
2. Not all tactics are degenerate.
3. Plants are our friends.

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Post Tuesday, 1st August 2017, 13:49

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

Let me finish a few more Fedhas games first please...

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Post Thursday, 3rd August 2017, 01:46

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

* When the player enters a shop for the first time, all items which match his current autopickup get automatically added to his shopping list ($).

(this should be controlled by an option, as some players would find it annoying.)

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Post Thursday, 3rd August 2017, 03:48

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

Eliminate the possibility of normal items being negatively enchanted and/or cursed. If it's cursed, it should be marked as "enchanted" or otherwise distinct from completely average equipment.

The small chance for seemingly-average clubs and daggers lying on the dungeon floor or dropped by monsters to be secretly sticky and useless only serves to annoy freshly generated unarmed characters, who simply want to find something slightly more effective than their untrained fists to hit things with when all else fails. How this is valuable to the game, I have no idea.

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Post Thursday, 3rd August 2017, 04:48

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

Rast wrote:* When the player enters a shop for the first time, all items which match his current autopickup get automatically added to his shopping list ($).

(this should be controlled by an option, as some players would find it annoying.)


I would rather see a new menu command for selecting those items, it greatly depends on shop (good for scrolls/potions, bad for books).

Edit. Also selection would help to buy those items immediately (I often buy all/most good potions from a shop late game)
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Post Thursday, 3rd August 2017, 11:10

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

A small improvement: when there are duplicates in a shop in a shopping list, i'd like to see them.

Currently:
  Code:
a - [Orc:2]   30 gold  a scroll of identify

My wish:
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a - [Orc:2]   30 gold  a scroll of identify (3 duplicates)
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Post Friday, 4th August 2017, 00:41

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

If Shoals is generated, auto ctrl-q. No yes/no prompt. Please. At least make it an option.

Just "You see a portal to the Shoals! You turn around and leave the dungeon forever in disgust." and the game ends. Make an exception for merfolk, possibly.
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Post Friday, 4th August 2017, 00:58

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

What's wrong with Shoals?
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Post Friday, 4th August 2017, 04:04

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

auto explore should not attempt to enter shop which sell suff your character can't use. Fe for weapon/armour shops,Mu/Vp for food, non Vp for blood shops (if they haven't been removed),Mu for potions,etc.



Blomdor wrote:If Shoals is generated, auto ctrl-q. No yes/no prompt. Please. At least make it an option.

Just "You see a portal to the Shoals! You turn around and leave the dungeon forever in disgust." and the game ends. Make an exception for merfolk, possibly.

If you hate shoals that much, do the other lair branch and go to vaults. You don't need to enter shoals to win the game.
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Post Friday, 4th August 2017, 11:47

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

Allow me to examine stuff from the g menu.
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Post Friday, 4th August 2017, 11:50

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

Replace spell books with spell scrolls. Why? Because it's annoying to search for "Fire Magic" and drill into every found book and check where and which those fire spells are. Especially "great" when there is just one fire magic spell in a book with 6 spells.
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Post Friday, 4th August 2017, 17:41

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

I should have made it clear that I was being sarcastic. : P

Shoals bugs me for a number of reasons. The constantly expanding and receding shallow water makes it a pain in the posterior region for non-flying, non-swimming characters to explore and fight in it. It's much more dangerous than its counterpart branch, Swamp; compare krakens, sea snakes, sirens, water nymphs, impalers, javelineers, aquamancers, and avatars, plus Polyphemus and/or Ilsuiw and other uniques, to anything you usually encounter in the latter. Thorn hunters are the only things in Swamp that scare me half as much as many Shoals enemies do. Invisibility is strong in Shoals, of course, but it's strong in Swamp and many other places as well and not all characters will necessarily have invisibility on demand in the mid-game. You can brave Shoals or skip in in favor of Vaults; either way, it makes for a somewhat trickier game than its counterpart generally would.

Would removing ghosts count as an ease-of-use improvement?

EDIT: Okay, here's a thought: can we do something about the hydra gimmick? I'm playing an axe-wielding Ashenzari worshipper and the idea of uncursing my +7 broad axe of freezing and swapping it for a trident or something every time a hydra decides to appear frankly disgusting. I thought mechanics that encourage tedious swapping were discouraged. I'm going to just whack them with the axe and hope their regeneration isn't good enough to overcome the damage, but honestly I don't see why this should be a thing.

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Post Monday, 7th August 2017, 23:17

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

* Remove blowguns, rename needles to darts and make them throwable.
* Pare down the amount of throwable stacks. You can currently easily get to 10+ stacks.

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Post Monday, 14th August 2017, 09:08

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

Add an option that makes autopickup always use Apportation if available (under 15% fail) and if there is enough MP).
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Post Monday, 14th August 2017, 09:14

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

Fingolfin wrote:Add an option that makes autopickup always use Apportation if available (under 15% fail) and if there is enough MP).


Pressing 5 to restore MP after such auto-apportation would be boring. I would prefer to have all "autopickup" items instantly get into inventory if there are no monsters in view. A small buff of course but a great ease of use improvement.
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Post Monday, 14th August 2017, 09:39

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

VeryAngryFelid wrote:
Fingolfin wrote:Add an option that makes autopickup always use Apportation if available (under 15% fail) and if there is enough MP).


Pressing 5 to restore MP after such auto-apportation would be boring. I would prefer to have all "autopickup" items instantly get into inventory if there are no monsters in view. A small buff of course but a great ease of use improvement.


It could be off by default, and activatable in the rcfile.
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Post Monday, 14th August 2017, 10:07

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

This one is huge, but it would be nice to have an actual "options" menu with a GUI, instead of an rc file to edit.
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MainiacJoe, VeryAngryFelid

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Post Monday, 14th August 2017, 10:17

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

Shtopit wrote:This one is huge, but it would be nice to have an actual "options" menu with a GUI, instead of an rc file to edit.


It is not even hard to do (I did something like that in 2 programming languages but I don't know C++ good enough). It can take literally 2-3 days I believe. Seriously, dynamically creating a row with label, combobox and 1-2 textboxes is trivial. Storing data into options_guide.txt file is trivial too and we already have parsing in place.
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Shtopit

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Post Monday, 14th August 2017, 15:59

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

VeryAngryFelid wrote:
Shtopit wrote:This one is huge, but it would be nice to have an actual "options" menu with a GUI, instead of an rc file to edit.


It is not even hard to do (I did something like that in 2 programming languages but I don't know C++ good enough). It can take literally 2-3 days I believe. Seriously, dynamically creating a row with label, combobox and 1-2 textboxes is trivial. Storing data into options_guide.txt file is trivial too and we already have parsing in place.


I think this is something that there would be general interest in, so patches (even partial implementations as a way of getting things started) would be welcome. (That goes for a lot of things in this thread, fwiw!)

2-3 days is a drastic underestimate though. Factoring in getting this to work across all three build targets (not just webtiles), all the necessary testing / design iteration, and crawlcode, I would personally probably budget months of spare-time work, maybe about an entire version cycle, which I suspect is why no one's done this yet. At less spare-time speeds (and also a probably more accurate estimate than mine), Neil's estimate for a prototype is about 1 week of sitting down and working on nothing else.

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Post Monday, 14th August 2017, 16:01

Re: Ease of use improvements needed in .21

Fingolfin wrote:Add an option that makes autopickup always use Apportation if available (under 15% fail) and if there is enough MP).


Since we're in the ease of use thread:
* Remove Apportation

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