Dragon Armour with Archmagi?


If it doesn't fit anywhere else, it belongs here. Also, come here if you just need to get hammered.

User avatar

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1698

Joined: Saturday, 18th June 2016, 13:57

Post Friday, 7th July 2017, 01:31

Dragon Armour with Archmagi?

Instead of rCorrosion, the acid dragon could give scales with Archmagi. The weight would be OK for spellcasters, and I think that it's a more exciting option than an ego you can find on simple (nonart) rings.

I don't know if changing the dragon's attack and type would also be required, but, in case, it could be some sort of etheric dragon, shooting pure conjurations or retaining the acid attack.
I Feel the Need--the Need for Beer
Spoiler: show
3DSBeTr 15DSFiRu 3DSMoNe 3FoHuGo 3TrArOk 3HOFEVe 3MfGlOk 4GrEEVe 3BaIEChei 3HuMoOka 3MiWnQaz 3VSFiAsh 3DrTmMakh 3DSCKXom 3OgMoOka 3NaFiOka 3FoFiOka 3MuFEVeh 3CeHuOka 3TrMoTSO 3DEFESif 3DSMoOka 3DSFiOka

Slime Squisher

Posts: 395

Joined: Wednesday, 6th July 2016, 02:40

Post Friday, 7th July 2017, 02:41

Re: Dragon Armour with Archmagi?

no, because it would be OP

remember that in terms of spellpower archmagi have same effect with INT * 1.5
http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/papilio.html

Done 15-rune wins with all playable species, backgrounds, gods!

For this message the author papilio has received thanks:
WingedEspeon

Dungeon Master

Posts: 625

Joined: Thursday, 23rd October 2014, 03:08

Post Friday, 7th July 2017, 03:14

Re: Dragon Armour with Archmagi?

how is it op? currently you can get a similar, if not stronger effect with robes of archmagi+ozocubu

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8786

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Friday, 7th July 2017, 03:17

Re: Dragon Armour with Archmagi?

counterpoint: ozocubu's armour is OP

For this message the author duvessa has received thanks: 5
Gigaslurp, NhorianScum, papilio, VeryAngryFelid, WingedEspeon

Shoals Surfer

Posts: 297

Joined: Wednesday, 9th July 2014, 08:20

Post Friday, 7th July 2017, 19:42

Re: Dragon Armour with Archmagi?

This would be great if only to remove the need to wearid every glowing robe in the dungeon before you find archmagi.

On a side note, why is it called archmagi? Did multiple spellcasters wear it in turns? Eeewww.
User avatar

Halls Hopper

Posts: 70

Joined: Friday, 2nd September 2016, 02:00

Post Friday, 7th July 2017, 22:37

Re: Dragon Armour with Archmagi?

Shtopit wrote:Instead of rCorrosion, the acid dragon could give scales with Archmagi. The weight would be OK for spellcasters, and I think that it's a more exciting option than an ego you can find on simple (nonart) rings.

Why wear other scales, then?
CanOfWorms wrote:how is it op? currently you can get a similar, if not stronger effect with robes of archmagi+ozocubu

Acid dragons are way more common than monsters wearing robe of Archimagi.
Acid dragon scales still allow ozocubu.
Spoiler: show
If anything should drop archimagi scales, it's iron dragon. At least it would look funny on demigod.
User avatar

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1698

Joined: Saturday, 18th June 2016, 13:57

Post Saturday, 8th July 2017, 00:48

Re: Dragon Armour with Archmagi?

Lavandula wrote:Acid dragon scales still allow ozocubu.

This isn't true (0.20.1, Wizmode), if you mean ozocubu's armour. 5 is already beyond the maximum encumbrance level (which is 4).

More answers later.
I Feel the Need--the Need for Beer
Spoiler: show
3DSBeTr 15DSFiRu 3DSMoNe 3FoHuGo 3TrArOk 3HOFEVe 3MfGlOk 4GrEEVe 3BaIEChei 3HuMoOka 3MiWnQaz 3VSFiAsh 3DrTmMakh 3DSCKXom 3OgMoOka 3NaFiOka 3FoFiOka 3MuFEVeh 3CeHuOka 3TrMoTSO 3DEFESif 3DSMoOka 3DSFiOka

Dungeon Master

Posts: 625

Joined: Thursday, 23rd October 2014, 03:08

Post Saturday, 8th July 2017, 01:16

Re: Dragon Armour with Archmagi?

Lavandula wrote:Acid dragons are way more common than monsters wearing robe of Archimagi.

from the 0.20 objstat sheet:

0.12 robes of archmagi in D
0.14 robes of archmagi in Orc
0.98 robes of archmagi in a whole 3-rune game with Swamp/Snake (note: this is counting optional branches like Elf, Crypt, and portals)

0.01 acid dragon scales in D
0.01 acid dragon scales in Orc
0.28 acid dragon scales in a whole 3-rune game with Swamp/Snake

there are barely more acid dragon scales in a typical 3-rune game than there are robes of archmagi in D and Orc alone

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8786

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Saturday, 8th July 2017, 01:46

Re: Dragon Armour with Archmagi?

CanOfWorms wrote:
Lavandula wrote:Acid dragons are way more common than monsters wearing robe of Archimagi.

from the 0.20 objstat sheet:

0.12 robes of archmagi in D
0.14 robes of archmagi in Orc
0.98 robes of archmagi in a whole 3-rune game with Swamp/Snake (note: this is counting optional branches like Elf, Crypt, and portals)

0.01 acid dragon scales in D
0.01 acid dragon scales in Orc
0.28 acid dragon scales in a whole 3-rune game with Swamp/Snake

there are barely more acid dragon scales in a typical 3-rune game than there are robes of archmagi in D and Orc alone
objstat includes items from monster inventories, but it doesn't include items that don't exist until the monster dies
so that's just the number of acid dragon scales that generated on the ground

For this message the author duvessa has received thanks:
nago

Dungeon Master

Posts: 625

Joined: Thursday, 23rd October 2014, 03:08

Post Saturday, 8th July 2017, 02:59

Re: Dragon Armour with Archmagi?

okay I went and grabbed the number of acid dragons:

1.06 (0.70 scales) in D
0.12 (0.08 scales) in Lair
3.38 (1.58 scales) in a whole 3-rune game with Swamp/Snake

roughly quadrupling the amount of archmagi in D/Lair/Orc would be pretty strong, yeah

For this message the author CanOfWorms has received thanks: 2
duvessa, nago

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8786

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Saturday, 8th July 2017, 04:41

Re: Dragon Armour with Archmagi?

Also, in practice games will probably have slightly more acid dragons than that, since many of the monsters you kill are spawned after the initial level generation.
User avatar

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1698

Joined: Saturday, 18th June 2016, 13:57

Post Saturday, 8th July 2017, 13:56

Re: Dragon Armour with Archmagi?

Yes, the number is too high. Pity about that, my games after 0.20 was released had very few acid dragons, so I just assumed the number had been lowered compared to mottled dragon; I still have to find the acid scales.

I guess I can propose some sort of "wizard dragon" that can be very rarely found all across the game, like, on a mean of 0.5 per game, below D:9. This would mean finding the scales on 1/3 of games. It's all very nebulous, though.

Lavandula wrote:Why wear other scales, then?


Well, it depends on many things. People who want higher AC may want fire scales. People who want higher AC may also go Ozu + many other things. But there is no certainty of finding Ozu before this, or this before Ozu. Generally, however, I was under the false assumption that it would have been reasonably rare.
Archmagi is useless for some spell very loved by hybrids, however: blink is the best example (especially interesting for ogres and trolls, whose armour choice is limited). Even for main casters, there also is the matter of capped spell power and the availability of other enhancers.
More experienced players will give a more balanced judgement about this, however. My assumption was that it would have been in the eveningstar orbit: very useful, but also rare enough that it would not eclipse other options in most games.
I Feel the Need--the Need for Beer
Spoiler: show
3DSBeTr 15DSFiRu 3DSMoNe 3FoHuGo 3TrArOk 3HOFEVe 3MfGlOk 4GrEEVe 3BaIEChei 3HuMoOka 3MiWnQaz 3VSFiAsh 3DrTmMakh 3DSCKXom 3OgMoOka 3NaFiOka 3FoFiOka 3MuFEVeh 3CeHuOka 3TrMoTSO 3DEFESif 3DSMoOka 3DSFiOka

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8786

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Saturday, 8th July 2017, 18:45

Re: Dragon Armour with Archmagi?

Nobody should want fire dragon scales, they're awful

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1233

Joined: Wednesday, 23rd April 2014, 21:57

Post Saturday, 8th July 2017, 22:31

Re: Dragon Armour with Archmagi?

I wonder what the rationale was behind making fire dragon scales worse than ice dragon scales, as far as the AC/ER ratio is concerned. Is it just because, well, fire?

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8786

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Saturday, 8th July 2017, 22:32

Re: Dragon Armour with Archmagi?

It's because rF is slightly better than rC. Doesn't make much difference since both are worse than plate, or any other dragon scales for that matter.

Tomb Titivator

Posts: 771

Joined: Tuesday, 25th November 2014, 02:47

Post Saturday, 8th July 2017, 23:56

Re: Dragon Armour with Archmagi?

Fire Dragon Scales were way better when phase shift and haste were castable things and dex powered damage on many weapons.
User avatar

Pandemonium Purger

Posts: 1386

Joined: Sunday, 5th April 2015, 22:37

Post Tuesday, 1st August 2017, 02:44

Re: Dragon Armour with Archmagi?

duvessa wrote:counterpoint: ozocubu's armour is OP

And Ozos melts when hit by fire, and it slows you, and it takes a turn, and it takes 3 mp, and and you don't get GMDR, and most importantly recasting ozos is annoying.

Ice dragon scales give 3 AC less than plate at armour skill 22 and 2 AC less at skill 0. Meanwhile they are a lot easier to cast in, and they don't wreck your EV nearly as much at plate. Ice dragon scales are usualy bad because they give rF- meaning you need to walk around with a source of rF not to risk auto exploring into a fire spell and making you need even more rF available to you if you want to be able to swap in rF.

Fire dragon scales can be good for Mu.
http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/playe ... speon.html. I started playing in 0.16.1
I achieved greatplayer in less than a year.
Remove food

For this message the author WingedEspeon has received thanks:
mattlistener

Return to Crazy Yiuf's Corner

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by ST Software for PTF.