Labyrinth Idea


If it doesn't fit anywhere else, it belongs here. Also, come here if you just need to get hammered.

Slime Squisher

Posts: 386

Joined: Thursday, 26th March 2015, 01:22

Post Sunday, 2nd July 2017, 12:37

Labyrinth Idea

Having spent the better part of my adolescence in a particularly terrible labyrinth, I came up with a pretty ingenious idea (if I say so myself) to make labyrinths a nicer fit in the game. For those who aren't aware, many players (such as the venerable crate) have voiced dislike for these mislabeled mazes, arguing that they 'are unrelated flow-breaking minigames in the middle of crawl' and that they 'aren't even good mazes' [paraphrase]. However, other players (I don't remember them right now) insist that labyrinths are as old as crawl itself and offer a nice break from the tedium of stairdancing. I myself remember being intrigued by labyrinths when I was a new player.

So, how do we keep labyrinths in the game for the fans while removing their objective gameplay flaws? When I think of crawl's labyrinth, constantly contorting with a dangerous monster in the elusive center, I think of an internal mental struggle. It is as if your character is faced with an inevitable truth that must somehow be reconciled with a preexisting value system.

I think labyrinth's should explore this flavor further: (here is my idea now) labyrinths should scale in difficulty with intelligence, so that the more intelligent your character is, the more complex the maze. For a modest 3 int troll berserker, there really isn't much 'cognitive dissonance' to deal with. You like killing and eating, and the dungeon allows you to do just that, so a labyrinth might be a direct ten tile path to the minotaur. But for a 42 int deep elf of chei, the quest for the orb poses all sorts of existential difficulty. Why do you need the orb, anyways? Is your murderous dishevelment of the dungeon's ecosystem really a net good for the world? What if you are only a piece in a game, controlled by the whims of a greater entity who is likewise being controlled by fates far beyond their perception? For this deep elf, the labyrinth would be a nightmare, constantly changing and directing the player away from the center with long-winded pathways to nowhere.

This proposed fix would solve all the major problems with labyrinths and in fact make them more strategically interesting. If you don't like labyrinths, that's fine: just play melee characters. If you do like solving mazes, you are encouraged to build characters with as much int as possible, possibly by adapting to dungeon drops in an unconventional way. Because the labyrinth's flavor would be enhanced, the 'flow-breaking minigame complaint' would no longer be an issue: the puzzle would in fact enhance the realism of the overall crawl experience. Discuss.

For this message the author amaril has received thanks: 2
duvessa, Tedronai
User avatar

Tomb Titivator

Posts: 838

Joined: Friday, 2nd October 2015, 04:47

Post Sunday, 2nd July 2017, 12:45

Re: Labyrinth Idea

If only people played high Int characters because they really love puzzles, and not because they are looking forward to Fire Storm on everything below Vaults from a distance.

You're also going to get the argument it's counterintuitive that smarter characters wouldn't still figure out the puzzle itself faster than others. You've replaced a maze with a philosophy school, amusing though it is.
Online game stats & morgues
More runes! GnWn (11, 0.21), GhMo^Makh (15, 0.17)
And a Yiuf: (1.4.6, 0.20): ImpGl^Oka (3)

For this message the author stoneychips has received thanks: 2
Gigaslurp, invertedeye
User avatar

Crypt Cleanser

Posts: 732

Joined: Monday, 24th April 2017, 11:46

Post Sunday, 2nd July 2017, 12:58

Re: Labyrinth Idea

To make this idea really work, the software would have to gauge the IQ of the player, not the INT of the character. I think the programmers are not quite there yet.
Maɟaŋ

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1193

Joined: Friday, 16th January 2015, 20:20

Post Sunday, 2nd July 2017, 13:36

Re: Labyrinth Idea

Wait, you spent most of your adolescence in a labyrinth? Are you a minotaur?

Temple Termagant

Posts: 6

Joined: Sunday, 25th June 2017, 09:26

Post Sunday, 2nd July 2017, 13:55

Re: Labyrinth Idea

I have a better idea. How about we remove the labyrinth?

For this message the author invertedeye has received thanks:
duvessa

Slime Squisher

Posts: 344

Joined: Tuesday, 14th April 2015, 19:56

Location: France

Post Sunday, 2nd July 2017, 14:35

Re: Labyrinth Idea

I'm not yet convinced I like the idea, but you could reflavor this as an "introspection labyrinth", harder for the elf because his mind is much more complex.
3 runes : MiMo^Ru, HOFi^Beogh, TrMo^Yredelemnul, GrFi^Ru, FoFi^Gozag, MiGl^Okawaru
4 runes : DDFi^Makhleb
5 runes : GrEE^Vehumet
15 runes : MiFi^Ru, NaWz^Sif Muna, GrWz^Sif Muna
I mostly play offline or online on CXC
User avatar

Tomb Titivator

Posts: 838

Joined: Friday, 2nd October 2015, 04:47

Post Sunday, 2nd July 2017, 17:36

Re: Labyrinth Idea

I'm not against features that show a little more connection with lore of the world. In fact, I'd rather like to see a few more. (Though prevailing forum fad seems to say, heaven forbid anyone "add" anything huge besides more deities to mainstream Crawl, right?)

I also wouldn't mind more variations on the Labyrinth, although I think the devs did a very good job of adding a touch more to it with the recent changes. I rather like the Labyrinth and there's certainly room in there for a touch more activity. Not sure I'd want to shrink it too dramatically but depends on the concept too.

I'm just finding this particular idea a bit hard to go with.
Online game stats & morgues
More runes! GnWn (11, 0.21), GhMo^Makh (15, 0.17)
And a Yiuf: (1.4.6, 0.20): ImpGl^Oka (3)
User avatar

Tomb Titivator

Posts: 838

Joined: Friday, 2nd October 2015, 04:47

Post Sunday, 2nd July 2017, 17:39

Re: Labyrinth Idea

Airwolf wrote:Wait, you spent most of your adolescence in a labyrinth? Are you a minotaur?

Dang it, some people get all the fun. There are some beautiful labyrinths out there.

(Now regurgitate the following characters, please... :lol: Just kidding!)
Online game stats & morgues
More runes! GnWn (11, 0.21), GhMo^Makh (15, 0.17)
And a Yiuf: (1.4.6, 0.20): ImpGl^Oka (3)
User avatar

Halls Hopper

Posts: 70

Joined: Friday, 2nd September 2016, 02:00

Post Sunday, 2nd July 2017, 21:36

Re: Labyrinth Idea

amaril wrote:Let's nerf mages and Cheibriados

What is wrong with you?

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1217

Joined: Sunday, 14th April 2013, 04:01

Post Monday, 3rd July 2017, 15:31

Re: Labyrinth Idea

Other idea: make labyrinths mini-zigs

Have them be 3 floors, each 1/4th the size of a regular labyrinth. In each, you fight the minotaur- first time at 1/3 health, second time at 2/3 health, third time at full. Each time, once you defeat it, it disappears to the next floor and an escape hatch/one way teleporter is unlocked.
Three wins: Gargoyle Earth Elementalist of Ash, Ogre Fighter of Ru, Deep Dwarf Fighter of Makhleb (0.16 bugbuild :( )
User avatar

Tomb Titivator

Posts: 838

Joined: Friday, 2nd October 2015, 04:47

Post Monday, 3rd July 2017, 16:53

Re: Labyrinth Idea

TeshiAlair wrote:Other idea: make labyrinths mini-zigs

Have them be 3 floors, each 1/4th the size of a regular labyrinth. In each, you fight the minotaur- first time at 1/3 health, second time at 2/3 health, third time at full. Each time, once you defeat it, it disappears to the next floor and an escape hatch/one way teleporter is unlocked.

The minotaur is pretty dog-gone tough for some characters already, and occasionally it gets undead versions of itself nearby anyway.

I kind of like the multi-level, increasing challenge idea but I'm not sure if I'd make it no escape until you face every level like that (or wait, is that slash an "or" or a "both"? not clear to me). I'd also prefer a more varied, not quite just all super tanky set of mobs to inhabit the main stretch toward the exit(s).
Online game stats & morgues
More runes! GnWn (11, 0.21), GhMo^Makh (15, 0.17)
And a Yiuf: (1.4.6, 0.20): ImpGl^Oka (3)

Halls Hopper

Posts: 72

Joined: Wednesday, 13th April 2016, 01:37

Post Wednesday, 5th July 2017, 14:34

Re: Labyrinth Idea

Shouldn't it be HARDER for labyrinths to be solved by low-INT characters? They aren't smart enough to navigate the labyrinth!

Return to Crazy Yiuf's Corner

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 86 guests

cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by ST Software for PTF.