Species pitch: Two-god-user
Posted: Wednesday, 24th May 2017, 23:37
by Gorgondantess
Samsarans are pseudo-mortal, exotic humanoids who hail from a faraway land. There, they practice a henotheistic religion, worshiping the God-Of-A-Thousand-Faces, believing that all "gods" worshiped by mortals are simply avatars of their over-deity's various aspects. As such, rather than following an individual "god", they often pay homage to multiple aspects of their deity at once, so long as they do not absolutely contradict one another.
Samsarans are ghostly, frail people, being more attached to the spirit world than to ours. While their flexibility of faith grants great power to the truly devoted, their lack of connection to the world around them means that they advance in experience extremely slowly, though this connection also makes them decent with Air Magic, Necromancy and Translocations, as well as having advantages in stealth.
Advantages of a two-god species (i.e., the pitch):
How would it work?
Tentative other stats:
So, yeah, it's an idea I'd been toying around with for a while. I'm sure the whole thing is wildly impractical, unbalanced, and would absolutely never, ever happen - but I wanted it put it out there regardless.
Samsarans are ghostly, frail people, being more attached to the spirit world than to ours. While their flexibility of faith grants great power to the truly devoted, their lack of connection to the world around them means that they advance in experience extremely slowly, though this connection also makes them decent with Air Magic, Necromancy and Translocations, as well as having advantages in stealth.
Advantages of a two-god species (i.e., the pitch):
Spoiler: show
One of my favorite things about DCSS has been the interesting build combinations and routes: one of my earliest memories of the game was trying to figure out the worst possible species/class combo, choosing Troll AE, and then realizing that it was actually a pretty damn good combo, as Swiftness and RMsl were phenomenal tools for a bloodthirsty troll. I've always spent a lot of time planning out possible builds, and on thing that's happened again and again is thinking, "Oh, maybe I could use [X god] to capitalize on this strength/shore up this weakness", only to immediately remember that I'd already chosen a god for the build. It didn't take me long to start drooling over how cool it would be to actually have a race like that... and then I thought, why not? Well, because it would likely necessitate changing the game's interface, simply to accomodate showing the two gods and two piety bars in the top right corner, morgue files, the religion screen, etc. Sadly, it's pretty much unavoidable, and it would probably be a pain in the ass in general. But it would be interesting, and in fact I think it would be in line with several of Crawl's design goals. The first, and most obvious, is of course replayability, but not just in terms of adding another species: it would be genuinely different, allowing for many unique playstyles that wouldn't otherwise be possible, with even more *meaningful decisions* for players to make in terms of how their build progresses. I know that I'm using a different context than the "meaningful decisions" in the design goals but I do think it's within the spirit thereof: one thing it would accomplish is make otherwise oft-ignored gods much more worth taking. Most likely having a power curve similar to a Demonspawn (awful early game, excellent late game), and not being shackled to a single deity, a god with a powerful * like Fedhas would be much more appealing; meanwhile, there would be many, many more situations where a Samsaran would be able to pick up Jivya at the bottom of the Lair, giving a greater niche to what are probably the two least commonly worshiped gods. Beyond this, they would be able to get away with picking any of the other more nuanced, less raw-power gods, by picking one of the "strong" ones alongside it.
How would it work?
Spoiler: show
Conflicts of Interest: Naturally, a Samsaran wouldn't be able to worship, say, both Dith and Qaz/Nem/Makhleb - using any of their primary abilities would quickly (albeit randomly) place the user under penance. Here's a list of which gods shouldn't be able to work with which others:
*The holy trio won't be able to work with any of the overtly evil gods: Kiki, Lugonu, Makhleb, Yred, who all either use Necromancy or consort with demons.
*Fedhas won't be able to work with Kiku.
*Trog won't be able to work with Chei, Kiki, Sif or Vehumet.
*As mentioned above, Dith won't be able to work with Qaz, Nemelex, or Makhleb.
I think that's all the ones that absolutely wouldn't work without significant changes.
What about obviously terrible combos, like Gozag and Fedhas, or Dith and TSO, (whose halo/umbra cancel each other out): I think in these kinds of situations it's best to err on the side of allowing it - this race is about allowing as many new and interesting options as possible, and who knows, someone might figure out how to make one of these oddball combos work.
What about Nem/Xom passively granting a !haste effect to a Chei worshiper, or a necromancy effect from a deck of destruction under one of the good gods?: To my knowledge (I probably didn't do enough research), this is always forgiven, or cancelled before it has to be. If not, such an interaction would either have to be changed, or not be able to worship those gods together.
What about Beogh and the good gods? Or Jivya/Xom with Zin? Or Fedhas and Kiku? Or Dith and Fedhas?: While these gods' flavors clash, none of their granted abilities would technically anger the other god. And to a Samsaran, they're all the same deity regardless. It's reasonable one could choose to worship both the good and evil sides of such a deity.
What about Chei and Wu Jian or Okawaru?: Really on the fence on this one. I'm not sure if Finesse or Serpent's Lash would actually be penance under Chei: after all, they're easily flavored as more "my extra speed comes from pure skill" (something Chei is okay with) vs. "my extra speed comes from temporal manipulation" (less okay). I wonder if that's actually in the code anywhere?
Piety: When having two gods who both would get piety from the same action (e.g. killing a creature), a coinflip would ensue, and only the selected god would actually gain that piety, signified by only one "[said god] appreciates your kill". This would add the strategic option of only choosing one god at first, building piety until you hit the threshold you want, and only then picking up your second god. Potentially the species might even not be able to take their second god until they reach a certain level of piety with their first. A similar situation could happen with gifts, so a Trog/Oka worshiper wouldn't get a massive flood of weapons... or, on the other hand, maybe they should!
*The holy trio won't be able to work with any of the overtly evil gods: Kiki, Lugonu, Makhleb, Yred, who all either use Necromancy or consort with demons.
*Fedhas won't be able to work with Kiku.
*Trog won't be able to work with Chei, Kiki, Sif or Vehumet.
*As mentioned above, Dith won't be able to work with Qaz, Nemelex, or Makhleb.
I think that's all the ones that absolutely wouldn't work without significant changes.
What about obviously terrible combos, like Gozag and Fedhas, or Dith and TSO, (whose halo/umbra cancel each other out): I think in these kinds of situations it's best to err on the side of allowing it - this race is about allowing as many new and interesting options as possible, and who knows, someone might figure out how to make one of these oddball combos work.
What about Nem/Xom passively granting a !haste effect to a Chei worshiper, or a necromancy effect from a deck of destruction under one of the good gods?: To my knowledge (I probably didn't do enough research), this is always forgiven, or cancelled before it has to be. If not, such an interaction would either have to be changed, or not be able to worship those gods together.
What about Beogh and the good gods? Or Jivya/Xom with Zin? Or Fedhas and Kiku? Or Dith and Fedhas?: While these gods' flavors clash, none of their granted abilities would technically anger the other god. And to a Samsaran, they're all the same deity regardless. It's reasonable one could choose to worship both the good and evil sides of such a deity.
What about Chei and Wu Jian or Okawaru?: Really on the fence on this one. I'm not sure if Finesse or Serpent's Lash would actually be penance under Chei: after all, they're easily flavored as more "my extra speed comes from pure skill" (something Chei is okay with) vs. "my extra speed comes from temporal manipulation" (less okay). I wonder if that's actually in the code anywhere?
Piety: When having two gods who both would get piety from the same action (e.g. killing a creature), a coinflip would ensue, and only the selected god would actually gain that piety, signified by only one "[said god] appreciates your kill". This would add the strategic option of only choosing one god at first, building piety until you hit the threshold you want, and only then picking up your second god. Potentially the species might even not be able to take their second god until they reach a certain level of piety with their first. A similar situation could happen with gifts, so a Trog/Oka worshiper wouldn't get a massive flood of weapons... or, on the other hand, maybe they should!
Tentative other stats:
Spoiler: show
-10% HP, +0 MP, +5 MR/level, 4 S, 7 I, 7 D, +1 random att/ 4 levels. Other aptitudes (including experience) would be as a Demigod, but with +1 Stealth and +0 Air Magic/Necromancy/Translocations, and 0 Invocations. The magic skills are mainly for flavor, though they may unduly benefit Sif/Chei/Kiki, who would all be quite strong alongside another god to begin with. I also tried to avoid too much overlap with Demonspawn apts. Invocations are really just where they should be for a -1 to all apts race, and aren't raised above norm in order to avoid brainless skill allocation.
One problem the race would run into is having an abysmal early game, and a much stronger late game. Though there is already a race that more or less does this (Demonspawn), I don't think we need another one, particularly when the early game is generally much harder than the late game to begin with. I had a few ideas on how to balance this out, though they're all pretty bad and brute-force.
*Just give them rPois, explained by, once again, less of a connection to the mortal coil/physical realm; another option would be a permanent RMsl effect. These are both effects that are both rare and valuable in the early game, but tend to end up being less hard to come by/less valuable in the late game.
*Ban Necromutation, what with the whole reincarnation angle; Necromutation makes most of extended a cakewalk, and with 2 gods they'd be pretty damn good at that to begin with.
* A different sort of MP scaling - +2 MP, with a -10% MP mutation. More MP in the early game, less in the later game. Very brute-force, though.
Flavor-Based Ability - Reincarnation: Obviously, Samsarans are more or less based on Hinduism, and I thought a Felid-style extra life system would be cool, but based on reincarnation. Just copying the Felid ability outright would be more or less functional, though probably with much fewer bonus lives. Alternately, the Samsaran could, instead of losing a level, drop all their gear at their corpse, and reappear (X floors up/on D:1) with their starter gear. This would lead to a really fun experience of trying to retrieve one's gear, and maybe even scouring the rest of the dungeon for other items in order to make the trip safer. On top of that, in levels with lots of humanoid enemies, one might even return to their corpse only to find many of their items gone, and have to go looking for them. Probably be more trouble than it's worth, though, and it would unfairly penalize heavy armor users.
Beyond that, instead of being tied to levels, much like Dharma it could be tied to one's success within their role - maybe they'd get their first life upon reaching X stars in piety with one of their gods.
One problem the race would run into is having an abysmal early game, and a much stronger late game. Though there is already a race that more or less does this (Demonspawn), I don't think we need another one, particularly when the early game is generally much harder than the late game to begin with. I had a few ideas on how to balance this out, though they're all pretty bad and brute-force.
*Just give them rPois, explained by, once again, less of a connection to the mortal coil/physical realm; another option would be a permanent RMsl effect. These are both effects that are both rare and valuable in the early game, but tend to end up being less hard to come by/less valuable in the late game.
*Ban Necromutation, what with the whole reincarnation angle; Necromutation makes most of extended a cakewalk, and with 2 gods they'd be pretty damn good at that to begin with.
* A different sort of MP scaling - +2 MP, with a -10% MP mutation. More MP in the early game, less in the later game. Very brute-force, though.
Flavor-Based Ability - Reincarnation: Obviously, Samsarans are more or less based on Hinduism, and I thought a Felid-style extra life system would be cool, but based on reincarnation. Just copying the Felid ability outright would be more or less functional, though probably with much fewer bonus lives. Alternately, the Samsaran could, instead of losing a level, drop all their gear at their corpse, and reappear (X floors up/on D:1) with their starter gear. This would lead to a really fun experience of trying to retrieve one's gear, and maybe even scouring the rest of the dungeon for other items in order to make the trip safer. On top of that, in levels with lots of humanoid enemies, one might even return to their corpse only to find many of their items gone, and have to go looking for them. Probably be more trouble than it's worth, though, and it would unfairly penalize heavy armor users.
Beyond that, instead of being tied to levels, much like Dharma it could be tied to one's success within their role - maybe they'd get their first life upon reaching X stars in piety with one of their gods.
So, yeah, it's an idea I'd been toying around with for a while. I'm sure the whole thing is wildly impractical, unbalanced, and would absolutely never, ever happen - but I wanted it put it out there regardless.