When is switching gods the correct choice?


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Post Tuesday, 16th May 2017, 10:52

When is switching gods the correct choice?

God wrath always carries a risk. Sometimes the reward seems worth the risk though.

One example I can think of was a HE^Oka who went for all runes and had been gifted great Int+ gear. I trained Tornado to low fail and switched to Makhleb. Makhnado healing seemed to make the rest of the game a lot safer, and often Tornado wiped out the Oka wrath summons by itself. Worth it.

Whether Oka gifts should survive god wrath is another story...
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Post Tuesday, 16th May 2017, 11:19

Re: When is switching gods the correct choice?

Never, unless you're worshiping xom or yred.

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Post Tuesday, 16th May 2017, 13:46

Re: When is switching gods the correct choice?

There have been reported cases of Gozag abandonment for reasons of sustenance.

Some gods don't do much in the late game. I wouldn't normally do extended with Fed for example, especially once out of fruit.

It's conceivable to switch between 'good' gods to cure mutations with Zin, rot(?) with Ely or to make a holy weapon.

I've switched to Jyiva once for an easy rune when I just wanted to finish the game.

I imagine there can be cases where switching to Lug in the abyss can be a lifesaver.

Switching to a specific god for zigs, or even titles, is something people do.

In my view wrath gets overestimated. It's not impossible to prepare for by any means.

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Post Tuesday, 16th May 2017, 20:12

Re: When is switching gods the correct choice?

If you started as a CK or DDAK then god switching can be good. Switching from Fedhas to Jiyva is also good, in the event that you actually find a Jiyva altar.

On other characters, the god that is best on D:5 is probably best for the rest of the game too, thanks to all the good early game gods being similarly good later in the game.

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Post Tuesday, 16th May 2017, 20:16

Re: When is switching gods the correct choice?

When you get banished, switching to Lugonu is often your best chance for survival.
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Post Tuesday, 16th May 2017, 20:29

Re: When is switching gods the correct choice?

If you are casting spells that make you hungry, took Zin early for some reason and are running out of food, it may be a good idea to switch to TSO/Ely if you don't want to overtrain spellcasting just to make your spells hungerless.
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FeEE{HOIEMiAE}GrGlHuWrGnWrNaAKBaFi{MiDeMfDe}{DrAKTrAMGhEnGnWz}
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Post Wednesday, 17th May 2017, 06:21

Re: When is switching gods the correct choice?

4Hooves2Appendages wrote:In my view wrath gets overestimated. It's not impossible to prepare for by any means.


I can say the same about staying with initial god. If you got to Zot 5 with DE of Trog, it's not impossible to get 15 runes by any means.
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Post Wednesday, 17th May 2017, 17:22

Re: When is switching gods the correct choice?

In the old days, changing to TSO from whatever you worshipped before to make it through the post-end-game branches was a good idea, as TSO was somewhat difficult to worship in the early game. But nowadays you can build up piety with him really early, so you could pick him right away. As a caster, Vehumet or Sif Muna may give you a better-rounded spell set to begin with, so it is usually wise to start out with them. If you want to switch to TSO, it is best to do it after clearing Zot, but before going into the Crypt.
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Post Wednesday, 17th May 2017, 20:19

Re: When is switching gods the correct choice?

watertreatmentRL wrote:When you get banished, switching to Lugonu is often your best chance for survival.

I have almost never found this to be the case. Either you're banished at a reasonably high level and you can survive the abyss, or you're very low level and likely to die before you ever find a lugonu altar. They aren't super common that you're going to find them before your first "in too deep for a level 10 character" encounter. And even if it does pop up immediately for that hypothetical level 10 character, they now have to survive their previous god's wrath, which is difficult. I'm not sure I ever switched to lugonu in abyss, I might have tried it once or twice, but I don't remember if the character succeeded.

If we really wanted that kind of switch to be a thing, then lugonu altars should be guaranteed to spawn in LOS when you are banished.
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Post Wednesday, 17th May 2017, 21:22

Re: When is switching gods the correct choice?

tasonir wrote:If we really wanted that kind of switch to be a thing, then lugonu altars should be guaranteed to spawn in LOS when you are banished.

We could go all the way and make banishment always land you on a Lugonu altar.
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FeEE{HOIEMiAE}GrGlHuWrGnWrNaAKBaFi{MiDeMfDe}{DrAKTrAMGhEnGnWz}
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Post Thursday, 18th May 2017, 00:20

Re: When is switching gods the correct choice?

i often switch from oka/trog to makhleb around depths
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Post Thursday, 18th May 2017, 10:39

Re: When is switching gods the correct choice?

VeryAngryFelid wrote:
4Hooves2Appendages wrote:In my view wrath gets overestimated. It's not impossible to prepare for by any means.

I can say the same about staying with initial god. If you got to Zot 5 with DE of Trog, it's not impossible to get 15 runes by any means.

I agree with you.

The point I was trying to make is that god switching is allowed crawl. I feel that there are plenty of situations where switching is less dangerous than going for another rune. Players go for more than 3 runes quite a lot, yet gods don't get switched much.

Perhaps I am biased because my first winning character did switch from Trog to Zin.

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Post Thursday, 18th May 2017, 10:47

Re: When is switching gods the correct choice?

4Hooves2Appendages wrote:I feel that there are plenty of situations where switching is less dangerous than going for another rune.


I almost never switch gods because:
1) I don't know specifics of god wrath and I am lazy to check wiki or whatever. When I see a monster coming into view, I check it and know what it does. When I abandon a god, I don't know what happens next. Reading about being killed by Vehumet from half HP does not help either.
2) Last time I swapped gods, I was too close to death multiple times (abandoned Oka for Lugonu at about XL 20 as rather powerful character, packs of Titans and Master Archers are tough)
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Post Thursday, 18th May 2017, 11:09

Re: When is switching gods the correct choice?

4Hooves2Appendages wrote: I feel that there are plenty of situations where switching is less dangerous than going for another rune.

I really think that generally, the chance of being killed because of god wrath must be greater than the chance of being killed because you didn't switch gods.
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Post Thursday, 18th May 2017, 12:08

Re: When is switching gods the correct choice?

I'm not claiming that switching gods is generally safer than staying. The actual balance of that depends on the charater, the gods in question, equipment, etc. In some cases it is clearly beneficial, in some cases clearly suicide, in most cases I expect it'll be marginally dangerous or pointless.

Let me try again. 3 runes are enough to win the game, yet many players try to get additional runes. Getting additional runes is clearly much more dangerous than 'just' winning. I'm claiming that for a strong character switching gods is less dangerous than venturing into pan or hell to get more runes. Subjectively, wrath feels on average eaier than dangerous pan / hell situations. But yes, it can lead to or contribute to death.

People who are scared of wrath can even choose to wait it out in relatively safer spaces. Switch first, then head to crypt, slime or whatever is left. I wouldn't recommend switching and then going straight into pan or hell typically.

I agree that wrath is quite unpredictable and the game doesn't provide much clarity on the exact effects, frequency and so on. Although in my view wrath is better explained and more predictable than hell effects.

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