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In regards to the blood of gargoyles

PostPosted: Tuesday, 25th April 2017, 03:09
by josefromcouch
How come gargoyles can go berserk while ghouls cannot? Both races are nonliving, nonbreathing and bloodless. Yet gargoyles can whip their nonexistant blood into a frenzy. Clearly gargoyles should be blocked from going berserk.

Re: In regards to the blood of gargoyles

PostPosted: Wednesday, 26th April 2017, 00:03
by tasonir
I'd support it. A slight nerf to gargoyles, but they can probably afford it. Maybe move this to GDD?

Re: In regards to the blood of gargoyles

PostPosted: Wednesday, 26th April 2017, 02:45
by therealnebgrebaes
Yeah, but Gargoyles are more sentient and capable of thinking, whereas ghouls, at first thought, really don't seem to be like that. I would agree with you otherwise.

Re: In regards to the blood of gargoyles

PostPosted: Wednesday, 26th April 2017, 03:27
by duvessa
Crawl's undead explicitly have human or near-human intelligence.

Re: In regards to the blood of gargoyles

PostPosted: Wednesday, 26th April 2017, 13:13
by MainiacJoe
I always had the impression that the "blood" stuff in berserk flavor text was metaphoric, and that undead couldn't berserk because reasons. Literal blood, that makes more sense as for undead, esp. vampires.

Re: In regards to the blood of gargoyles

PostPosted: Wednesday, 26th April 2017, 14:03
by nago
I'm also pretty positive that berserk should work like other god powers and bypass race limitation. Why is one if not the last god power which doesn't work with some races (undead, Fo)?

If having two item work differently from a god power is bad, they could be differentiate more (such as Lucy's blink is different from blink spell), or just remove - although !rage is a most interesting item for me.

Re: In regards to the blood of gargoyles

PostPosted: Wednesday, 26th April 2017, 19:21
by Elitist
Gargoyles could stand a nerf, I remember bringing this up in a series of inconsistencies between Goyles and other races (and monster goyles, but monster to PC conversion is so inconsistent it has to be chalked up to balancing).

Re: In regards to the blood of gargoyles

PostPosted: Wednesday, 26th April 2017, 20:44
by Magipi
Gargoyles are a mess, just like all the other new species. In trunk, originally they had a different name (but what? I don't remember), then they were renamed and redesigned, then they were redesigned again. I played a gargoyle who had no bonus AC but had some self-petrification gimmick or what.

Re: In regards to the blood of gargoyles

PostPosted: Thursday, 27th April 2017, 00:28
by Shtopit
Gargoyles seem to me a very noob friendly race. I am not sure this change would make them more fun.

Re: In regards to the blood of gargoyles

PostPosted: Thursday, 27th April 2017, 00:59
by Shard1697
alternatively, you could let ghouls berserk

Re: In regards to the blood of gargoyles

PostPosted: Thursday, 27th April 2017, 21:06
by tasonir
Magipi wrote:Gargoyles are a mess, just like all the other new species. In trunk, originally they had a different name (but what? I don't remember), then they were renamed and redesigned, then they were redesigned again. I played a gargoyle who had no bonus AC but had some self-petrification gimmick or what.

There were originally called grotesks, although I may be off on the spelling somewhat. Also they started with +2 unarmed aptitudes, which is basically my white whale of crawl races and will probably never ever happen. It got nerfed to +1 pretty quick, before finally going down to 0 where it is now.

Re: In regards to the blood of gargoyles

PostPosted: Friday, 28th April 2017, 03:00
by Airwolf
Shard1697 wrote:alternatively, you could let ghouls berserk

Can we get rid of the Transmutations limits for Gr, Gh, & Mu while we're at it?

Re: In regards to the blood of gargoyles

PostPosted: Friday, 28th April 2017, 04:40
by TonberryJam
The game needs more options, clearly.

Re: In regards to the blood of gargoyles

PostPosted: Friday, 28th April 2017, 12:30
by Majang
Gargoyles are obscenely strong in so many respects - taking away their ability to rage wouldn't even come close to balance all their great perks. I would not be opposed.