How is this still a thing?


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bel

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Post Wednesday, 25th January 2017, 11:26

How is this still a thing?

Wandering mushrooms at 1*.

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Post Wednesday, 25th January 2017, 11:36

Re: How is this still a thing?

Because some gods are meant to be better than others?
...DDAs}{HaBeKoAK}CeVM{MfWnMiAK}TeAMDrIE{FoVMVSFi}{MuVMGhGlVpMo}HaWrSpWz{OgGlTrMo}
{CeWnMfBeMiSk}DrEE{GrFiFoGl}DgEnFeNe{OpGlHuSu}DDArHaCKSpAEGrTmDgFEDsCjGhMoHuVM{HaAM
BaEn}{HuMoHOWn}DsWzDDHu{DgWnGnBe}FeIE{MiEnMfCj}SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe

bel

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Post Wednesday, 25th January 2017, 11:39

Re: How is this still a thing?

Are they? I can't find any professed design principle which states this explicitly. One could perhaps make an argument for Trog being overpowered as the default "beginner" god, but what's Fedhas' excuse?

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Post Wednesday, 25th January 2017, 12:35

Re: How is this still a thing?

Baby-steps god for moving beyond "hit them with the pointy end." I had an early Fedhas win and found it challenging because I had to learn more subtle tactics. Those were good lessons.
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Post Wednesday, 25th January 2017, 13:24

Re: How is this still a thing?

Won a Fedhas game a while ago. Never again. Getting the wandering mushrooms to actually fight for me was a fucking nightmare; I had had more fun farming piety in ADOM.

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Post Wednesday, 25th January 2017, 13:57

Re: How is this still a thing?

Fedhas is not a strong god for new players IMHO, also it introduces unique playstyle which is arguably bad for new players.
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Post Wednesday, 25th January 2017, 14:29

Re: How is this still a thing?

Without Fedhas: you notice a monster, you retreat some steps to a safe place to fight.
With Fedhas: you notice a monster, you retreat some steps to a safe place to fight and your mushroom(s) confuse and damage the enemy so you have easy time killing it.
...DDAs}{HaBeKoAK}CeVM{MfWnMiAK}TeAMDrIE{FoVMVSFi}{MuVMGhGlVpMo}HaWrSpWz{OgGlTrMo}
{CeWnMfBeMiSk}DrEE{GrFiFoGl}DgEnFeNe{OpGlHuSu}DDArHaCKSpAEGrTmDgFEDsCjGhMoHuVM{HaAM
BaEn}{HuMoHOWn}DsWzDDHu{DgWnGnBe}FeIE{MiEnMfCj}SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe

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Post Wednesday, 25th January 2017, 14:32

Re: How is this still a thing?

Exactly. Trog doesn't teach noobs luring. Fedhas was one of the things that taught me--and now, when I do play Trog, I lure and it's awesome.
Won (48). Remaining (15): 5 species: Ba, Fe, Mu, Na, Op; 6 Backgrounds: Tm, AM, Wr, Su, AE, Ar; 3 gods: Jiyv, newNem, WJC

bel

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Post Wednesday, 25th January 2017, 14:53

Re: How is this still a thing?

I have never seen anyone argue that Fedhas is specifically designed to be OP to teach beginners how to lure and the proposition seems very far-fetched to me. Therefore I'll ignore the argument as special pleading.

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Post Wednesday, 25th January 2017, 15:01

Re: How is this still a thing?

Works for me. I'm not an expert, you know that; but I can relay my own experience.
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Post Wednesday, 25th January 2017, 15:14

Re: How is this still a thing?

The funny thing is that Fedhas was one of the last gods I tried to win with and I was surprised how weak it was despite I knew how luring worked at that point. Those mushrooms die like flies to hydra, for example. I lost several pretty powerful characters before the win, many of my mushrooms disappeared while I was autotraveling, many died out of my view etc. I still believe Fedhas is miles away from Trog, Oka and alike but I don't like arguing it (since I learned from my mistake about Makhleb's Lesser Servants that sometimes I am wrong :)).
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Post Wednesday, 25th January 2017, 15:38

Re: How is this still a thing?

Crawl allies 101: don't let hydras attack, make them walk next to your dudes. Works not only with mushrooms.

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Post Wednesday, 25th January 2017, 16:23

Re: How is this still a thing?

stickyfingers wrote:Crawl allies 101: don't let hydras attack, make them walk next to your dudes. Works not only with mushrooms.

But mushrooms don't walk. Do you have to treat them as a terrain feature and lure the hydra past them several times? More generally, how do you keep the hydra following you instead of hitting back at your allies?
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Post Wednesday, 25th January 2017, 16:42

Re: How is this still a thing?

  Code:
.*.
.*.
f*.
.@.
.D.

Stars are your path. Then find something to circle around in the north, rinse and repeat. Attack the hydra if it becomes distracted.

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Post Wednesday, 25th January 2017, 16:42

Re: How is this still a thing?

Come on, please don't teach me how to lure things :)
Luring does not work in this case, mushrooms hit hydra once, hydra switches its attention to them and kills them all. I still remember how I lost 4 mushrooms to a single hydra.
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Post Wednesday, 25th January 2017, 16:48

Re: How is this still a thing?

And I never have lost 4 mushrooms to a single hydra. But I don't dare to argue, I have realized I'm capable of being wrong many years ago.

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Post Wednesday, 25th January 2017, 17:03

Re: How is this still a thing?

I think that's because it's random. Your hydra might continue chasing you, mine got distracted multiple times and I didn't have time to maneuver because I was low on HP and chased by other monsters also.
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Post Thursday, 26th January 2017, 16:49

Re: How is this still a thing?

Yeah i don't remember what the actual chance of a critter attacking your ally instead of you are, but i would guess from observation it to be around 25% or so. 4 times in a row is certainly unusual in my experience, but hardly out of the realm of possibility.
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VeryAngryFelid

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Post Monday, 30th January 2017, 13:56

Re: How is this still a thing?

Fedhas is powerful but

1. Freaking cumbersome.
2. Weak in extended (although this is not a thing for 3-runers)
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Post Monday, 30th January 2017, 14:31

Re: How is this still a thing?

Someone who recommend fedhas for noobs is kinda liar.

Fedhas lacks immediate panic button and forces careful playstyle.
I think it's likely a god for relatively experienced players who want to win with weak combo.
http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/papilio.html

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Post Monday, 30th January 2017, 17:08

Re: How is this still a thing?

imo "walk back to your shroom bros and let them kill whatever bothers you" is a pretty good panic button

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Post Monday, 30th January 2017, 17:15

Re: How is this still a thing?

I guess we have different opinions about pillar-dancing at low HP being a good panic button.
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