Abyss Ambulator
Posts: 1194
Joined: Friday, 18th April 2014, 01:41
Re: Just my two copper on wand removal...
you can't get much worse than muwn.
If it doesn't fit anywhere else, it belongs here. Also, come here if you just need to get hammered.
Abyss Ambulator
Posts: 1194
Joined: Friday, 18th April 2014, 01:41
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 4432
Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51
tabstorm wrote:here have a muwn with no haste and no healing: http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/ ... 171418.txt
you can't get much worse than muwn.
Abyss Ambulator
Posts: 1194
Joined: Friday, 18th April 2014, 01:41
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 4432
Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51
Tartarus Sorceror
Posts: 1667
Joined: Saturday, 11th October 2014, 06:12
Location: Brazil. RS, Santa Cruz do Sul.
VeryAngryFelid wrote:dynast wrote:Then my argument would be that if you dont put any of the fruits into special packages the apples would be the least damaged ones.
And then I said "I tried transporting apples without special packages and they rotted away" and you said "that's because they are apples, try bananas which are eaten more often".
VeryAngryFelid wrote:You still didn't reply what is your strategy for NaEn to guarantee win without haste. And no, winning NaEn is not an argument since you can be lucky. I am more interested in simple question "Is it possible/common to get into situation when only haste can save your Naga?" and I believe the answer is yes.
Though the whole discussion is really strange, it's common knowledge that it is easier to die with Chei than without Chei and we have an equivalent of that (Naga is equivalent of "with Chei", hasted Naga is "without Chei")
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 4432
Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51
dynast wrote:No no nonono, Naga is the fruit here, so when i said dont play --En i didnt say to try another fruit, i meant "dont put dem apples into a shitty bag or they will squish each other", or "that truck is not made for transporting apples".
Go gozag so you can bribe the orb run, also Gozag has passive active abilities the moment you join him, you might make the argument that its because he gives haste but i just say its because he gives you anything, the potion petition is pretty much a extra life early, you can also make the case that gold distraction lets you play as a kiting naga and call me a hypocrite, i dont care. Chei will likely kill a naga before he can do any good. The way i played my last NaEn was to simply transition to a full fighter, picking up the first decent heavy weapon that showed up(luckily, a axe) and slowly adjusting armor and stop using the starting spells.
http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/ ... 173112.txt
Skill XL: | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 |
---------------+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Fighting | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 24 | 24.1
Axes | 2 4 5 6 7 9 10 12 13 14 15 16 18 19 20 22 23 24 25 26 27 | 27.0
Armour | 1 2 3 5 6 8 10 12 14 15 16 17 | 17.7
Evocations | 5 | 5.4
Shields | 6 9 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 | 17.1
Short Blades | | 1.0
Dodging | | 1.5
Stealth | | 4.4
Spellcasting | | 2.0
Hexes | | 3.0
Action | 1- 3 | 4- 6 | 7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 | 19-21 | 22-24 | 25-27 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Dagger | 29 | 93 | | | | | | | || 122
War axe | | 4 | 360 | 354 | | | | | || 718
Short sword | | 30 | 12 | | | | | | || 42
Flail | | | 4 | 17 | | | | | || 21
Broad axe | | | | 283 | 929 | 1075 | 1254 | 1158 | 1244 || 5943
Tartarus Sorceror
Posts: 1667
Joined: Saturday, 11th October 2014, 06:12
Location: Brazil. RS, Santa Cruz do Sul.
VeryAngryFelid wrote:So do apples need special transportation? Does NaEn need haste?
VeryAngryFelid wrote::) Sorry, I don't want to continue this "Naga does not need Haste" discussion. It needs haste because it cannot kill dangerous monsters with brandless dagger putting all XP into fighting.
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 4432
Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51
Shoals Surfer
Posts: 253
Joined: Monday, 20th June 2016, 15:27
Lasty wrote:I am pleased to announce that nagas can still read and quaff, and that none of Chei's abilities are being removed!
Tomb Titivator
Posts: 900
Joined: Sunday, 30th December 2012, 05:26
Dungeon Master
Posts: 3160
Joined: Sunday, 5th August 2012, 14:52
Dungeon Master
Posts: 1051
Joined: Thursday, 12th June 2014, 05:19
VeryAngryFelid wrote:While I am talking in general, Naga needs that wand of hasting to survive early game. What are you going to do when you are pursued by a pack of gnolls with distortion weapon or a couple of ogres? Fight with low AC/EV and hope nothing bad happens? Isn't haste the only GUARANTEED way to avoid death in such situation?
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 4432
Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51
PleasingFungus wrote:...er, how many nagas were finding early-game /haste to begin with?
Dungeon Master
Posts: 1051
Joined: Thursday, 12th June 2014, 05:19
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 6418
Joined: Friday, 6th July 2012, 12:48
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 4432
Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51
PleasingFungus wrote:pretty sure it matters insofar as /haste is totally irrelevant
and also insofar as invis, tele, blink, damage/hex wands, etc etc etc do exist
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 6418
Joined: Friday, 6th July 2012, 12:48
Tomb Titivator
Posts: 900
Joined: Sunday, 30th December 2012, 05:26
Shoals Surfer
Posts: 253
Joined: Monday, 20th June 2016, 15:27
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 4432
Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51
Dungeon Master
Posts: 3160
Joined: Sunday, 5th August 2012, 14:52
Tomb Titivator
Posts: 900
Joined: Sunday, 30th December 2012, 05:26
VeryAngryFelid wrote:All fruits are designed to be eaten, that's how plants create other plants. You are right that fruits are not designed to be cut and seeds to be removed (so no new plants appear from the seed), that's how human is fooling nature.
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 4432
Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51
Lasty wrote:@VAF imagine the gnoll with a spear of distortion has a haste potion too, or amulet of rage. Now every race needs /haste to survive by your argument. This is a player nerf, not a naga nerf. Heck, let's say that gnoll has a wand of haste -- we just saved your naga by removing it!
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 4432
Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51
ZipZipskins wrote:VeryAngryFelid wrote:All fruits are designed to be eaten, that's how plants create other plants. You are right that fruits are not designed to be cut and seeds to be removed (so no new plants appear from the seed), that's how human is fooling nature.
Wait, THAT'S how plants create other plants? Holy shit!
Tomb Titivator
Posts: 900
Joined: Sunday, 30th December 2012, 05:26
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 6454
Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06
Lasty wrote:@VAF imagine the gnoll with a spear of distortion has a haste potion too, or amulet of rage. Now every race needs /haste to survive by your argument. This is a player nerf, not a naga nerf. Heck, let's say that gnoll has a wand of haste -- we just saved your naga by removing it!
@removeely, the argument isn't over whether this is a player nerf (it is), it's an argument over whether it specifically nerfs nagas and mummies significantly more than other species. Outside of wizmode, the answer is no, because you don't have a wand of haste anyway.
Dungeon Master
Posts: 625
Joined: Thursday, 23rd October 2014, 03:08
Siegurt wrote:I think the point here is that there are cases where a non hasted naga would die and a non hasted race that was normal speed or faster could live because he could walk away. Whereas a hasted naga could also live in that situation.
That means less availability of haste hits nagas *slightly* more strongly than it does other races.
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 6454
Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06
CanOfWorms wrote:Siegurt wrote:I think the point here is that there are cases where a non hasted naga would die and a non hasted race that was normal speed or faster could live because he could walk away. Whereas a hasted naga could also live in that situation.
That means less availability of haste hits nagas *slightly* more strongly than it does other races.
but you see, the only situations where this is true is when nagas don't have access to haste, which is the early game. thankfully, we increased the generation of haste potions, therefore... this is a net naga buff!!!!
Shoals Surfer
Posts: 325
Joined: Tuesday, 13th October 2015, 06:02
Tartarus Sorceror
Posts: 1762
Joined: Monday, 14th October 2013, 01:05
Abyss Ambulator
Posts: 1111
Joined: Monday, 18th March 2013, 23:23
ZipZipskins wrote:VeryAngryFelid wrote:All fruits are designed to be eaten, that's how plants create other plants. You are right that fruits are not designed to be cut and seeds to be removed (so no new plants appear from the seed), that's how human is fooling nature.
Wait, THAT'S how plants create other plants? Holy shit!
Spider Stomper
Posts: 241
Joined: Saturday, 29th October 2016, 17:41
Spider Stomper
Posts: 241
Joined: Saturday, 29th October 2016, 17:41
Shard1697 wrote:Except you don't get all of Chei's abilities when you join. You have to earn them, and the whole time you're earning them you are slow. Chei is very dangerous early on.
Tartarus Sorceror
Posts: 1667
Joined: Saturday, 11th October 2014, 06:12
Location: Brazil. RS, Santa Cruz do Sul.
Spider Stomper
Posts: 241
Joined: Saturday, 29th October 2016, 17:41
dynast wrote:When you have a fork with splatratio so high that you make Chei look good.
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 49 guests