Change lv of lichform<->statueform

[papilio]

Lichform lv 8->6
Statueform lv 6->8

After removal of clarity amul/haste spell/haste wand/heal wand, this seems more balanced.

[duvessa]

necromutation is definitely terrible but statue form is not anywhere near good enough to justify level 8...compare hydra and dragon form

[severen]

upping statue form level is silly. Lich I dunno, a lot of people use it, but its only real justification for being level 8 is torment immunity/mutation resistance. Granted those are essentially impractical/incredibly unlikely to get by other means, maybe 8 is justified maybe not its hard to judge.

[dynast]

It would be too optimal to get lv6 lich form to avoid starving.

[VeryAngryFelid]

It would be too optimal to get lv6 lich form

FTFY. +6AC, MR+,rPois+++, rN+++ at the cost of being unable to quaff haste which you don't have anyway due to spending them earlier because of lack of haste spell/wand.

[VeryAngryFelid]

I agree about upping level of statue form. Currently it's no brainer for Op/Fe and is easy to get due to no body armour and high Int.

[severen]

I agree about upping level of statue form. Currently it's no brainer for Op/Fe and is easy to get due to no body armour and high Int.

Those are very particular cases because both those species have no other means for high armor, for all other species blade hands can be a very good alternative especially for chei. Also Dragon Form is a perfectly viable alternative for Op when they use Ozo armor, statue can be better in extended due to certain resistances. The slow on statue form is a very very major drawback.

[Rast]

It would be too optimal to get lv6 lich form to avoid starving.

I wonder what Crawl noobs think when they read CYC

[Turukano]

Lichform lv 8->6

Imo lichform is better than some people in this forum usually say. However, these people are partially right because lev 8 eats a lot of XP. On the other hand, lev 6 is too cheap.

What about making lichform a lev-7 spell?

[VeryAngryFelid]

Those are very particular cases because both those species have no other means for high armor, for all other species blade hands can be a very good alternative especially for chei. Also Dragon Form is a perfectly viable alternative for Op when they use Ozo armor, statue can be better in extended due to certain resistances. The slow on statue form is a very very major drawback.

I agree, Blade Hands should be moved to level 6 and be dual school.

[severen]

Those are very particular cases because both those species have no other means for high armor, for all other species blade hands can be a very good alternative especially for chei. Also Dragon Form is a perfectly viable alternative for Op when they use Ozo armor, statue can be better in extended due to certain resistances. The slow on statue form is a very very major drawback.

I agree, Blade Hands should be moved to level 6 and be dual school.

Egad. We should probably make spider form level 5 then. That poison brand is kind of OP.

[Midn8]

If we lower Lichform to 7, then we should have an amazing transmutation form to top out the class. Maybe give them polymorph?

I personally thing the slow on Statue form is enough to justify keeping it at level 6.

[Shtopit]

It would be too optimal to get lv6 lich form to avoid starving.

I wonder what Crawl noobs think when they read CYC

Spoiler: show

[PleasingFungus]

If we lower Lichform to 7, then we should have an amazing transmutation form to top out the class.

Lowering lichform's level is kind of irrelevant; if there should be an "awesome top-tier transmutation", lichform already doesn't serve that role!

anyway, the answer is that dragon form exists, and that a 'top-tier' spell for a uc-focused school probably shouldn't be level 9.

[papilio]

Statue form is almost guaranteed key to 15 rune win to UC users. Saying that "hey, the slow penalty is too bad" is ridiculous because you can steamroll everything with stone punch with few hits plus decent resistances without any spellcast/EV penalty. At least leveling up to level 7 is definitely needed.

[stickyfingers]

Yeah, that whole body armour thing is irrelevant anyway.