On Zot spell restrictions

[Doesnt]

In 0.19, it's no longer possible to cast Passage of Golubria in Zot, and Controlled Blink yields a normal blink. This is a great step in the right direction to making Zot feel like a true final dungeon, but I think it could be better. For 0.20, I'd like to see Fireball no longer be usable in Zot, and trying to cast Shatter should instead shoot one stone arrow in a random direction (still costing 9 MP, of course). To warn players about this, the message on entering Zot could be changed to something like "You feel the Orb interfering with magic here". No need to adjust any other descriptions, endgame surprises are fun.

[Sar]

sounds like somebody splatted really hard)

[VeryAngryFelid]

Yes, CBlink and Passage of Golubria should be removed.
CBlink is equivalent of a consumable and Passage of Golubria is OP for level 4.

[chequers]

It's a fair point, but posted with such laden sarcasm I'm not sure what you hoped to achieve. Do you think this thread will encourage a dev to improve the situation?

[Doesnt]

The point is made sarcastically (and in CYC) because I don't personally have the energy to argue for it, and the fact that this stupid issue has existed in a smaller form for ages and is being made more of an issue makes me think it will be met with heavy resistance. (IMO even carrying the orb should not ban cblink in any form, it just encourages you to burn blink scrolls right before whatever point they become useless at.) The best I honestly expect is someone updating the descriptions of the blink scroll/pog/cblink to include something about how they "can fail near very powerful magical artifacts, such as the Orb of Zot" like Apportation's description does.

And FWIW it hasn't made me splat, although it did make me come close and I've seen a few other people get messed up by it too. What pushed me into posting about it was someone on tileschat pointing out that it is a massive newbie trap as there is almost no warning that your blink scrolls have turned to blank paper. It also feels very wrong to me for CBlink to even exist now as a level 8 spell when it doesn't work in the one place you're likely to have left when you're learning level 8 spells.

[Sar]

it hasn't made me splat

there's always a room for improvement

[Sprucery]

Summon butterflies should summon a bunch of hostile shrikes in Zot and during Orb run (caustic and shard of course).

[pedritolo]

Summon butterflies should summon a bunch of hostile shrikes in Zot and during Orb run (caustic and shard of course).

While paralyzing you, ofc

[Floodkiller]

It also feels very wrong to me for CBlink to even exist now as a level 8 spell when it doesn't work in the one place you're likely to have left when you're learning level 8 spells.

But Extended doesn't have any restrictions on CBlink?

[tabstorm]

Why not just remove passage and cblink instead of readding -cTele, except this time without telling the player beyond a message in the text box that no one reads? Players are not asked to watch the box to see when repel missiles runs out, for instance. Haste was just removed because it shouldn't be available as a spell because of reasons, why doesn't the same argument extend to cblink?

[Siegurt]

Why not just remove passage and cblink instead of readding -cTele, except this time without telling the player beyond a message in the text box that no one reads? Players are not asked to watch the box to see when repel missiles runs out, for instance. Haste was just removed because it shouldn't be available as a spell because of reasons, why doesn't the same argument extend to cblink?

Because they are different spells? I mean other than that they are both spells, they don't have anything in common at all... Haste wasn't removed because "it made the orb run too easy" (it did make it easier, but that isn't why it was removed)

[Shtopit]

Why not just remove passage and cblink instead of readding -cTele, except this time without telling the player beyond a message in the text box that no one reads? Players are not asked to watch the box to see when repel missiles runs out, for instance. Haste was just removed because it shouldn't be available as a spell because of reasons, why doesn't the same argument extend to cblink?

This looks like a huge nerf to translocations to me, especially for melee PCs.

[tabstorm]

Why not just remove passage and cblink instead of readding -cTele, except this time without telling the player beyond a message in the text box that no one reads? Players are not asked to watch the box to see when repel missiles runs out, for instance. Haste was just removed because it shouldn't be available as a spell because of reasons, why doesn't the same argument extend to cblink?

Because they are different spells? I mean other than that they are both spells, they don't have anything in common at all... Haste wasn't removed because "it made the orb run too easy" (it did make it easier, but that isn't why it was removed)

Both are spells that replicate consumables. Assume that haste works better as a consumable and shouldn't be infinite because of reasons. Why should there be a spell that replicates a blink scroll? Blink scrolls are get-out-of-jail-free cards.

Why not just remove passage and cblink instead of readding -cTele, except this time without telling the player beyond a message in the text box that no one reads? Players are not asked to watch the box to see when repel missiles runs out, for instance. Haste was just removed because it shouldn't be available as a spell because of reasons, why doesn't the same argument extend to cblink?

This looks like a huge nerf to translocations to me, especially for melee PCs.

Translocations are overpowered though. Any spell that should be picked up by almost all characters is overpowered. The entire Book of Spatial Translocations, Repel Missiles, Spectral Weapon, Regeneration, Animate Skeleton, etc. are examples.

[neverEnough]

Both are spells that replicate consumables. Assume that haste works better as a consumable and shouldn't be infinite because of reasons. Why should there be a spell that replicates a blink scroll? Blink scrolls are get-out-of-jail-free cards.

Fear shouldn't be available as spell.

Edit: did someone ever take a rune just by spamming it? Mumbling at shoals..

[Croases]

Why restrict yourself to magic? The entirety of Zot should be treated as shallow water/Leda's for player melee and movement purposes (except that merfolk, octopodes, gray draconians etc. don't get to ignore/benefit from it, obviously).

Let's make random Pan floors that forbid certain weapons and spells as well. Want to firestorm your way to five more runes? Too bad, every third map prevents the use of fire magic or conjurations! Better bring a back-up or five to that holy executioner's axe, because every other floor will ban either axes or holy wrath, or if you're unlucky even melee itself!

I mean, it's not like players train their skills with the expectation to be able to use these skills, right?

[CanOfWorms]

I bring you the hot insider scoop on 0.20 zot

[pubby]

you can cast PoG on zot if you quaff all the water from the zot fountains

[pubby]

don't let the big fish that live in the fountains get you though