New god idea for hunters

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Temple Termagant

Posts: 5

Joined: Friday, 30th September 2016, 07:58

Post Saturday, 1st October 2016, 11:19

New god idea for hunters

I want to say some warnings before post.
First, this is my first post on Tavern. Second, English is not my own language.
So maybe some part of my post is wrong, or looks rude. But both are not my purpose.
You may feel bad. I'm sorry.

I think there are too less gods for hunters.
Okawaru and Fedhas are them. However, Okawaru is more close to fighter's god, and Fedhas cannot solve hunters' largest problem, ammo problem.
That's why I suggest idea of new god for hunters.

My idea is god of magic ammo.
Of course this god handle ammo problem, but not by giving believers ammo. Okawaru and Trog already provide ammo.
Alternatively, this god ban to pick up any ammo.
Believers allowed to use only one special ammo.
They can select which ammo to use when they start to believe this god. It can be arrow, bolt, and any other ammo.
Sorry to finish every line with word ammo

Player cannot bring many ammo, but only ammo never be broken.
Also, player can recall ammo at any time by devine power. Using this devine power, ammo comes back to inventory. It can be active ability, but better to be passive.
If making this as a active power, give some damage to returning ammo looks good choice. Both speed and damage depend on invocation skill.
This is my suggestion to solve hunters' ammo problem.

Hunter's another huge problem is accuracy rate.
Usually OK, but it is impossible to kill monsters who use deflect missile. So Yara is required.
To solve this problem, this god give "Hunter's Mark"
If you use this devine power to enemy, and shoot the enemy after before effect disappears, then attack after first hit never miss.
It is too powerful ability, so maybe it should spend a lot of piety, more than finess.

Also, I give this god another ability, by the concept, magic ammo.
That is controll ammo's route. Like boomerang in Zelda.
But we cannot draw a route on screen.
I think designating some points can be solution.
For example, first, select two points. Call them A and B.
After that, ammo flies player to A straightly. Then, it goes A to B straightly too.
In this way, we can controll ammo to follow route.
Maybe make limit of number of points will be good. It can be depending on piety or invocation skill.
To make this ability works well, this god should give believers penetration brand.

Summing this up.
special ammo gift, ban to use other ammo, active ability recall ammo
* none
** give penetration brand
*** controll ammo's route. number of point increases as piety increases.
**** none
***** hunter's mark
****** none

This is end of my post.
Thank you for reading this
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Vaults Vanquisher

Posts: 510

Joined: Friday, 1st July 2016, 22:32

Location: Aachen, Germany

Post Saturday, 1st October 2016, 11:31

Re: New god idea for hunters

I have a better idea for hunter god.

* hunter's mark - set enemy HP to 1
*** unleash the hounds - summon 1d7 hounds, wolves or wargs with higher piety
***** kill command - deal irresistible smite-targeted damage to any enemy in LOS

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Temple Termagant

Posts: 5

Joined: Friday, 30th September 2016, 07:58

Post Saturday, 1st October 2016, 11:37

Re: New god idea for hunters

And bundle of traps?

Halls Hopper

Posts: 60

Joined: Friday, 15th January 2016, 08:34

Post Saturday, 1st October 2016, 13:15

Re: New god idea for hunters

Obviously its name has to be Amon. For he provides ammo a-plenty.



Serious answer: this is not a well-designed idea.
First, Crawl tries to avoid "niche" gods (other than Trog, and he's both a legacy from older days and a very controversial god among here, and has his own dedicated start). Like, Dithmenos is a "stealth god" whose abilities are still very useful for non-stealthy fighters, casters etc.; all but one non-zealot classes can benefit from worshipping him. A narrow focus on ammo-using characters that doesn't provide attraction for a melee or caster class is undesirable.
Second, "control ammo's route" may sound great in theory, but it's an ability that would be very, very tedious to use regularly. For tiles users, it means clicking on two different points instead of one each time they shoot; for console users (or tiles users who don't mostly use mouse), it's "f select target one f select target two f (arrow goes off here); f select target one again f select target two again f" instead of "f select target f (arrow goes off here); f f; f f…"

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Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1718

Joined: Monday, 14th October 2013, 01:05

Post Saturday, 1st October 2016, 19:29

Re: New god idea for hunters

I would contest Okawaru being "more of a fighter god". Heroism and Finesse both boost ranged combat just as much as they do melee combat(or arguably even more, if you take into account the value of getting a lot of free shots before an enemy closes in), and as ranged character Oka's gifts are better on average(because ammo gifting is always decently useful, while Oka's weapon/armor gifts are usually crap). Also Trog makes a good ranged character god, because they also gift ammo and Trog's Hand/Brothers in Arms is useful for anyone. (Plus you can berserk as a backup if you need to.)

With a bit of redesigning this could be a more flexible god. But perhaps flavor would need to be reexamined as well after that.
"God of the Hunt" is definitely a place you could go for a god that works with ranged. But what niche will it fill?
Well, aforementioned two gods both deal with melee and also ranged. But what about a god that aids ranged combat in general-with launchers and with magic? Although something like an ability that changes the path of projectiles might be wonky with spells that have varying ranges and sometimes AoE/piercing/bouncing effects...

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brainstorm, Sar, VeryAngryFelid

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 147

Joined: Friday, 23rd October 2015, 03:12

Post Saturday, 1st October 2016, 22:36

Re: New god idea for hunters

Remove ammo. If people are choosing gods for their ammo gifts (and they are, even if its not optimal it makes ranged far more pleasant) then it has become much more important than it deserves to be.

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Cimanyd, duvessa, vergil

Temple Termagant

Posts: 5

Joined: Friday, 30th September 2016, 07:58

Post Sunday, 2nd October 2016, 06:10

Re: New god idea for hunters

Thanks, everybody. Maybe better next time.

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Shoals Surfer

Posts: 291

Joined: Wednesday, 9th July 2014, 08:20

Post Sunday, 2nd October 2016, 17:24

Re: New god idea for hunters

For what it's worth, here's my take on an "archer god".

* "You begin to phase in and out of reality." Permanent phase shift, with extra EV increasing with piety.

** Duplicate Self: Target a tile. A copy of you appears on that tile (takes no auts) and you can fire a single attack of your choice from it before it vanishes (takes whatever the delay to that action was, your "main" body is inactive during that turn). You can use it as a kind of "portal melee" or to ping at targets beyond your LoS without any risk of getting hit back, but it should be piety-intensive (2-3 piety?) enough that it's not spammed against everything.

*** "[God] sometimes allows you to use consumables from other realms." Every time you use a potion or scroll, there is a piety in 2000 chance that you get the effect without using the item up (this works on EW, acquirement etc. - currently it is optimal to use these things right away, this creates an incentive to wait for slightly higher piety). Every time you shoot an arrow/bolt/sling bullet, there's a piety in 300 chance that you shoot it without using the projectile.

**** Split Damage: For ~20 turns, you take 50% damage from all sources - and 5% of that damage on each of the following 10 turns. Damage you ought to take is announced on @ like poison is, and the "Split" status you get turns yellow/red when your HP would drop below 50%/0% (or some other thresholds) at the end of the effect. Essentially, this lets you know that damage spikes are coming so that you can escape in time, but it doesn't actually prevent that damage.

***** Army of One: Target a 3x3 area. Your next offensive action is repeated on all tiles you target - if you swing at something, you perform a melee attack on all targeted tiles; if you shoot an arrow, you get a 3x3 arrow rain; if you fireball, the poor sod on the center tile gets fireballed nine times. Piety cost depends on the number of hits you made, with a cap of ~12-15 - if you use this to melee 2-3 monsters it won't take too much, if you multifirestorm ziggurat floors it will drain you fast.

****** No new abilities

Flavor: A god that was split across multiple planes and rewards its devotees with assistance from parallel worlds.

Gameplay: A straightforward god that enhances the consumables/skillset you have without giving you unique emergency options - you get multiple attacks (based on your own weapon/magic skill) and multiple consumables (based on what you found in the dungeon), but nothing like the gifts and "get out of jail free" cards of other gods - if you mess up, you're on your own (on the plus side, though, burning a blink scroll with Duplicate Self lets you escape two screens away, and Split Damage lets you know in advance that you really ought to bail).

You can worship him as melee because he gives you a strong pseudo-ranged option (also notice that cleaving + Army of One allows you to cast Axestorm), as an archer because he (effectively) gives you extra ammo, and as a caster because multibolt/multifireball will decimate things. Every character will also like this god because of phase shift and extra scrolls and potions, though it will probably be on the weak side because strong gods in Crawl enhance your early game (where you have little to no consumables).

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 170

Joined: Wednesday, 13th July 2016, 09:30

Post Sunday, 2nd October 2016, 19:07

Re: New god idea for hunters

Better solution to ammo problem:

  • Shooting bow\crossbow\sling\greatsling now doesn't require any ammo.
  • Replace ammo pickups with randomly generated quivers.
  • Quivers add up some damage and accuracy based on those, and give some unique features. Like arrows of fire\frost\electricity\penetration etc.
  • Adjust launchers damage accordingly, so that not having one would mean like halved damage. (needs testing)
  • Quivers cannot be enchanted. They serve as incremental (or multiplicative in case of randart or artefacts) source of damage boost.
  • Ammo god gifts are now replaced with quiver gifts (occur more rare than ammo gift before)
  • Auto-unequip quivers when removing launcher to prevent abuse of +stats on randarts (takes 0 auts, since we're switching weapons here). Auto-equip last selected quiver when switching back.
    Or just disable them if not using proper weapon in hands.

And there you have it. Now you don't need to add retarded gods, and have a nice mechanics with new generated item type.
Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show
But it'll probably won't be implement, because, you know. Too much stuff to do.
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