The Tavern

liquids and flight

Forum Polls...

When was the last time you died from a player ghost though? But I do agree any ghost that can drain you is stupid especially draconians

Died, I don't know. Annoyed by? every time

Shard1697 wrote:Died, I don't know. Annoyed by? every time

Player ghosts are great and a creative well designed monster and you should stop being a hater

You can't really die to player ghost. But that doesn't mean they are not terrible.

6533 | D:5 | Noticed spiff's ghost (legendary VSTm)

my removal and reform list:

all food and food costs, without replacement; if a mechanic is "unbalanced without food," it's unbalanced now
All Pan levels after the 15th, with that level as Holy Pan
Either 4 levels out of every Hell, or the equivalent space removed from every Hell floor (smaller floors = better hells)
Rune lock
Curses become trap effect multipliers, now come on good equipment, ?rc becomes as rare as ?blink
Traps removed and replaced with trap effects, 0% with no cursed items, increases with each equipped curse
All of the ID game except for artefacts, which gain enchantment and positive attributes after identificaton
Consequently, trap items for the ID minigame get removed, as well as most outright bad items
Spellbooks and enchant scrolls become dungeon features
All buffs become equipment or just get removed, except
Transmutations, which get rolled into a god or dungeon feature or amulets
HE, Ha/Ko, Vp
AM

This is a pro plan for a better crawl.

e: scrolled up and duvessa reminded me that flight is BS, so I'd add "deep water" and "lava" to that list, to be replaced by shallow water and painful floors, and then remove flight as well

Yep, what archaeo said.

I think you could reform Vp (I had a thread ages ago about this) and it would be, not great, but OK. Then you can limit butchering* for ghouls, "c" can exsanguinate and generate !blood for Vp, and there will be two species that can opt in to a food clock mini-game, while all other species are freed of the hassle.

* Hides would just drop randomly from appropriate enemies upon death. Corpses would be retained for Fedhas, Yred, and Necromancy, as well as ghouls and vamps and whatever other edge cases I'm forgetting.

edit: on second thought, remove butchering and just have viable corpses drop blood pots when playing vp and chunks when playing gh, remove butchering entirely. Even without food removal this should just happen for all species now, butchering is such an awkward/bad interface hassle.

archaeo wrote:Curses become trap effect multipliers, now come on good equipment, ?rc becomes as rare as ?blink

???

yesno wrote:
archaeo wrote:Curses become trap effect multipliers, now come on good equipment, ?rc becomes as rare as ?blink

???

if you multiply two features that have a negative effect on the game, you get a feature with a positive effect on the game. that's how it works right?

I think I'd like to see "dungeon crawl stone" removed from "dungeon crawl stone soup".
"dungeon crawl stone" is too long, adds nothing to the general mechanics except tedium, and stands in the way of optimal gameplay.

yesno wrote:
archaeo wrote:Curses become trap effect multipliers, now come on good equipment, ?rc becomes as rare as ?blink

???

I wrote about this in the thread about removing curses, but I don't think anyone paid attention to it (e: or the idea was so bad and it was communicated so poorly that I killed the thread). I'll restate it here:

Start by removing traps and replacing them with a set of "trap effects" or whatever, which have an extremely small chance of triggering on any given turn. Next, curses lose their "stickiness," and instead appear on particularly good items. Every cursed piece of equipment you wear significantly raises your chance of getting trap effects. You can freely unequip cursed items, but it has an extremely high chance of triggering a trap effect. ?RC becomes significantly more rare and can only affect one piece of equipment at a time.

I suppose you'd remove the {curse} attribute, maybe change it to {binding}. Likewise, Ash moves to a system where everything you equip is automatically bound and the god charges a high piety price to remove anything instead. And since my plan already removes the ID minigame, we can get rid of the piles of junk cursed gear generated to eat ?ID and ?RC.

Probably a garbage idea, but hey, I'm not being graded here.

duvessa wrote:if you multiply two features that have a negative effect on the game, you get a feature with a positive effect on the game. that's how it works right?

FR: Draconian ghosts no longer breathe negative energy. Formicid ghosts now shaft you.

I mean, I expect that what you describe would just be a waypoint toward the destination of removing curses and traps, and in that sense it sounds great.

archaeo wrote:Probably a garbage idea, but hey, I'm not being graded here.

Speaking for myself I like it a lot. It'd be fun to load up on powerful items that make negative effects happen more quickly.

The salient feature of this poll is that proves people love blinking monsters.

archaeo: This is a very interesting concept! I think it's also possible to make curses relevant by adding more noticeable negative effects, but that's for a different thread, without polls.

Only blinking monsters that are both speed <= 10 and lacking in ranged attacks are bad. This pretty much narrows it down to crimson imps and phantoms, no? Blinking monsters with fast movement or ranged can be interesting because you can't always berserk them safely.

tabstorm: That was a joke.

Phantoms I don't care for. With crimson imps, I don't know if they blinking behaviour is relevant enough for player use (the spell).

I know, I just wanted to comment on blinking monsters. I think imps do even less damage than phantoms. They haven't been much of a threat since they lost the ability to pick up items, and the regeneration makes them even more of a hassle since you are almost never going to be killed by one but you still want that risk-free XP.

imps still pick up items unfortunately

archaeo wrote:?RC ...can only affect one piece of equipment at a time.

I think this can be implemented if someone posts it as new thread in GDD. It is hard to balance number of the scrolls when you have no idea how many items each scroll affects.

archaeo wrote:my removal and reform list:
[list][*]all food and food costs, without replacement; if a mechanic is "unbalanced without food," it's unbalanced nowl

Interesting you bring that up. I just died as a DD^Gozag because the only vamp weapon also had *zerk, so that the constant zerk plus the occasional swap to another weapon used up almost all of my food. If zerk didn't cost food, I probably would have won that game, and if swapping to vamp didn't cost food, I would at least have lasted longer.

You might just stay at very hungry to avoid berserk but I guess you wanted to enjoy the game...

That's not possible once you run out of fruits. Everything else takes you from starving to above very hungry.

just use a rod, ring of flight, etc. to get back to very hungry quickly

So you're suggesting to... use a lot of extra food to prevent yourself from using a lot of extra food?

Rast wrote:
archaeo wrote:my removal and reform list:
[list][*]all food and food costs, without replacement; if a mechanic is "unbalanced without food," it's unbalanced nowl

Interesting you bring that up. I just died as a DD^Gozag because the only vamp weapon also had *zerk, so that the constant zerk plus the occasional swap to another weapon used up almost all of my food. If zerk didn't cost food, I probably would have won that game, and if swapping to vamp didn't cost food, I would at least have lasted longer.

You played a DD of Gozag, as in, not Makhleb. You were asking for trouble.

Why does everyone want to remove HE? They are a much better class to play as a glass cannon than DE and you could buff their HP ap and you could get a newbe caster race.

tabstorm wrote:
Rast wrote:
archaeo wrote:my removal and reform list:
[list][*]all food and food costs, without replacement; if a mechanic is "unbalanced without food," it's unbalanced nowl

Interesting you bring that up. I just died as a DD^Gozag because the only vamp weapon also had *zerk, so that the constant zerk plus the occasional swap to another weapon used up almost all of my food. If zerk didn't cost food, I probably would have won that game, and if swapping to vamp didn't cost food, I would at least have lasted longer.

You played a DD of Gozag, as in, not Makhleb. You were asking for trouble.

I can't help but notice that every character presented as proof that no, food really DOES matter! happens to be an incredibly contrived and obviously bad character build.

I forgot one thing I want added: Snail Knights.

Rename the Sk background to Crusader (Cr) and move Snail Knight to SK. This is a Cheibriados zealot. I think this provides a different enough early-game experience to be worthwhile.

No, just remove Cheibriados since we have Uskayaw, and add DK: Dance Knights of Usk.

gammafunk wrote:just remove Cheibriados

Only over my dead body!

BabyRage wrote:
gammafunk wrote:just remove Cheibriados

Only over my dead body!

youre a chei worshipper, we'll just jog past you

player ghosts
player ghosts
player ghosts

yesno wrote:player ghosts
player ghosts
player ghosts

Are good are good are good

The Tavern

What do you want removed from crawl

Re: What do you want removed from crawl

Re: What do you want removed from crawl

Re: What do you want removed from crawl

Re: What do you want removed from crawl

Re: What do you want removed from crawl

Re: What do you want removed from crawl

Re: What do you want removed from crawl

Re: What do you want removed from crawl

Re: What do you want removed from crawl

Re: What do you want removed from crawl

Re: What do you want removed from crawl

Re: What do you want removed from crawl

Re: What do you want removed from crawl

Re: What do you want removed from crawl

Re: What do you want removed from crawl

Re: What do you want removed from crawl

Re: What do you want removed from crawl

Re: What do you want removed from crawl

Re: What do you want removed from crawl

Re: What do you want removed from crawl

Re: What do you want removed from crawl

Re: What do you want removed from crawl

Re: What do you want removed from crawl

Re: What do you want removed from crawl

Re: What do you want removed from crawl

Re: What do you want removed from crawl

Re: What do you want removed from crawl

Re: What do you want removed from crawl

Re: What do you want removed from crawl

Re: What do you want removed from crawl

Re: What do you want removed from crawl

Re: What do you want removed from crawl

Re: What do you want removed from crawl

Re: What do you want removed from crawl

Re: What do you want removed from crawl

Re: What do you want removed from crawl