Brainstorming new monster type

[VeryAngryFelid]

As far as I know we don't have any monsters which are more dangerous one on one than when you have multiple monsters in view or even adjacent. Such monsters might make kill hole and corridor strategy not always optimal. (Slime creatures don't work often since they encourage you to fight them one on one as all other monsters do).
Something like

"Weird thing" (and a buffed version, "Very weird thing"), they are generated deeper than ugly things because they are much more dangerous and come in packs also.
Stats similar to (very) ugly thing but with variable base damage : 17 + extra 7 * HD damage - HD damage for every other hostile adjacent monster - HD/2 damage for every non-adjacent hostile monster in view. So "Weird thing" with HD 12 will have melee attack 17 + 7 * 12 = 101 when you don't have other monster in view.
89 when you are adjacent to another hostile monster also (it may be any monster, not necessarily weird thing).
77 when you are adjacent to 3 hostile monsters etc.
I hope you will have a potentially interesting choice:
1) do I want to kill other dangerous monsters first? But that will make weird things more dangerous... Maybe I will even let the Ironband convoker call some monsters.
2) do I want to buff vs packs? I can have easy time killing several weird things but still I will lose some HP and remaining weird things will deal more damage than the ones I have already killed
3) do I want to switch from axe to mace&flail (they crosstrain) to keep that popcorn alive while I deal with dangerous weird things.
4) do I want to fight Vaults 5 monsters in a kill hole? What am I going to do if Very Weird Thing comes to fight me (HD 18 means it can deal up to 17 + 7 * 18 = 143 damage in a single attack if I don't have other monsters in view).
Weird things have fast speed like ugly thing to discourage luring them to other monsters before fighting.

Edit. Changed base damage instead of new flavor.

[TeshiAlair]

Nikolette: Using an arcing electric attack with fixed number of bounces. More adjacent monsters = more things it can bounce to that are not you or it.

[VeryAngryFelid]

That would be trivial with rElec, I am trying to come with a monster who will be dangerous to high AC/EV character with perfect resists so player would need to use "smart tactics" (c)

[dowan]

No, I want to use the same old tactics that have always worked. Make the game harder for everything except the best tactics, don't you know how this works?

You should be trying to nerf interesting spell interactions, not corridor+tab play.

Sorry I seem to be in a very sarcastic mood today. This monster would be an interesting addition to the game.

[duvessa]

This proposed attack flavour is really obtuse, and, as TeshiAlair points out, accomplishes the exact same thing that monster chain lightning already does.

[phloomp]

Not quite: even if there were a pack monster with chain lightning and relec, it would still be more dangerous to fight them in a group than to fight them 1 on 1

EDIT: that said, a pack enemy with weak chain lightning could be the best approximation that doesn't introduce new mechanics

[duvessa]

Not every monster needs to be a pack monster, christ.

[luckless]

interesting idea but the monster should be a ninja of some sort

[VeryAngryFelid]

This proposed attack flavour is really obtuse, and, as TeshiAlair points out, accomplishes the exact same thing that monster chain lightning already does.

I don't see how it can be compared to chain lightning.
1) You cannot hit a PC in kill hole with chain lightning
2) You cannot stop "Sole attack" flavor with antimagic weapon
3) You cannot hit a PC in corridor with chain lightning
etc.
Chain lightning is trivial when you are AC 69 Gargoyle, the proposed monster would be deadly if fighting one on one.

[VeryAngryFelid]

Not every monster needs to be a pack monster, christ.

This proposal is about a monster which is supposed to change the way you deal with packs. I am not suggesting to remove all other monsters from the game, you still can lure Mara to kill hole and kill it with "smart tactics".

[duvessa]

1) You cannot hit a PC in kill hole with chain lightning
3) You cannot hit a PC in corridor with chain lightning
Chain lightning is trivial when you are AC 69 Gargoyle, the proposed monster would be deadly if fighting one on one.

...With all respect, I don't think you've adequately researched how chain lightning and attack flavours work.

[VeryAngryFelid]

...With all respect, I don't think you've adequately researched how chain lightning and attack flavours work.

It is easily possible but it does not invalidate my points. What am I missing for chain lightning? It ignores rElec?
I love to fight Lom Lobon in kill hole and I have never seen him cast Chain Lightning there. Also I saw that antimagic stops his spells rather reliably. As far as I know it is impossible to dodge or block Chain Lightning. Basiclaly I find it very weird that you continue comparing a single target melee attack to an area of effect spell.

[duvessa]

You're missing that terrain is entirely irrelevant for chain lightning (all that matters is line of fire and distance) and that attack flavours only occur if the base melee attack deals damage.

[VeryAngryFelid]

That's easy to fix, OP implies changing base damage so it is 143 base damage for alone very weird thing, I used "attack flavor" for easy comparison with ugly things, I guess it was my mistake.

I am not sure I understand you correctly about Chain Lightning. Do you mean I can be hit by Chain Lightning in kill hole from adjacent caster? Also multiple times from a single cast? Still not sure how it is relevant to what I am suggesting. Also you can decrease Chain Lightning damage by having allies unlike what I propose.

[duvessa]

I am not sure I understand you correctly about Chain Lightning. Do you mean I can be hit by Chain Lightning in kill hole from adjacent caster? Also multiple times from a single cast?

Yes.

[Shard1697]

Chain lightning is trivial when you are AC 69 Gargoyle, the proposed monster would be deadly if fighting one on one.

a whole fuckin lot of things are trivial when you are AC 69 Gargoyle

[VeryAngryFelid]

a whole fuckin lot of things are trivial when you are AC 69 Gargoyle

My point is that a single very weird thing can kill such gargoyle in 2 attacks easily. It's 143 base damage, AC does not help much vs such attacks.

[VeryAngryFelid]

Updated OP: changed base damage and removed attack flavor.

[goodcoolguy]

Chain lightning is trivial when you are AC 69 Gargoyle, the proposed monster would be deadly if fighting one on one.

Nice.

[CanOfWorms]

I love to fight Lom Lobon in kill hole and I have never seen him cast Chain Lightning there.

lom lobon doesn't have chain lightning, and as far as I can tell, never did.

[Sar]

well maybe he should! (not really a serious suggestion, everyone has rElec when fighting Lom anyway)

[VeryAngryFelid]

I love to fight Lom Lobon in kill hole and I have never seen him cast Chain Lightning there.

lom lobon doesn't have chain lightning, and as far as I can tell, never did.

Yes, I confused with Conjure Lightning Balls.

[Croases]

He should get a shock serpent-type aura, but instead of just a discharge, he gets an orb of electrocution centered on himself every time he gets hit.

[CanOfWorms]

Not every monster needs to be a pack monster, christ.

we are coming up with a fresh new monster, monster tamer, who spawns with 4-8 pack leaders in depths (each leader spawns with its own pack)

[VeryAngryFelid]

we are coming up with a fresh new monster, monster tamer, who spawns with 4-8 pack leaders in depths (each leader spawns with its own pack)

It does not make much difference. Give every monster Dig (33%), Seal Doors (33%) and Dimensional Anchor (33%).

[BabyRage]

we are coming up with a fresh new monster, monster tamer, who spawns with 4-8 pack leaders in depths (each leader spawns with its own pack)

Yo dawg, so I heard that you like packs...