Remove poison magic

[CypherZel]

Pls

[and into]

Pretty compelling argument, game over pro-poison devs

[CypherZel]

Like the saying goes, all bad and irrelevant things must come to an end.

[Sar]

so when does your posting

[CypherZel]

so when does your posting

Knew there was going to be someone who was going to type something along the lines of this, name your prize

[Croases]

so when does your posting

I think he named his prize already.

[Sar]

that would be a funny follow-up, but kind of too mean

stopping bullying poison-chan would be a good start though

[Shtopit]

Would you remove the spells, too, or just the school?

[CypherZel]

Would you remove the spells, too, or just the school?

Everything

[Midn8]

Poison is an important part of the game for many reasons. First, Venom mages have some of the strongest early game while falling off hard in the late game, which is strange given the "Early game is super hard" logic of most players. Poison arrow is an interesting spell, due to the fact that it deals irresistable poison damage. RPois is not necessary, but is very useful for several branches, lest it tax your curing potions. Venom weapons are a type of weapon which is useful early, but fairly weak later. Insects are vulnerable to poison, being one of their few weaknesses.

Finally, the spell ignite poison offers many tactical options, from blanketing the area in poison and lighting it on fire to launching flaming poison arrows.

[duvessa]

Poison arrow doesn't deal irresistible poison damage. That's an oxymoron. It deals some poison damage and some irresistible damage. There are lots of other spells that work th same way - icicle, bolt of magma, glaciate, fire storm, etc.
And VM's early game is worse than every other mage background's early game.

launching flaming poison arrows.

This hasn't been possible for a long time.

[Shard1697]

Poison is an important part of the game for many reasons. First, Venom mages have some of the strongest early game while falling off hard in the late game,

Why is that "an important part of the game"?

Also I would rather be Fire Elementalist early on than VM, and also would rather be FE late.

[dowan]

Poison is an important part of the game for many reasons. First, Venom mages have some of the strongest early game while falling off hard in the late game, which is strange given the "Early game is super hard" logic of most players...

While the venom mage description does indeed make that claim, it's not actually true. Sting is awful.

[BabyRage]

Venom mages have some of the strongest early game

Sting hits the hobgoblin. The hobgoblin appears unharmed. x1000

[CypherZel]

Poison is an important part of the game for many reasons. First, Venom mages have some of the strongest early game while falling off hard in the late game, which is strange given the "Early game is super hard" logic of most players. Poison arrow is an interesting spell, due to the fact that it deals irresistable poison damage. RPois is not necessary, but is very useful for several branches, lest it tax your curing potions. Venom weapons are a type of weapon which is useful early, but fairly weak later. Insects are vulnerable to poison, being one of their few weaknesses.

Finally, the spell ignite poison offers many tactical options, from blanketing the area in poison and lighting it on fire to launching flaming poison arrows.

You must think I've contracted some form of retardation if you think you can persuade me with that pack of lies. Sting is the worst starting spell out of all the starting spells of the Mage backgrounds. Poison magic is still the worst magic you can have at early game as well as any point in the game. Resist poison is useless. Venom weapons have nothing to do with poison magic. Ignite poison is also a waste of time and resources since there are better things to put your skills in. Poison magic is THE WORST skill in the game, Poison magic is the worst designed thing in crawl, especially if you thing it hits any of the goals you said up there. I honestly think it's insulting that it still exists

[VeryAngryFelid]

I like Sting spell, it is much better than Flame Tongue or Magic Dart IMHO (on D1).

[Shtopit]

Poison is an important part of the game for many reasons. First, Venom mages have some of the strongest early game while falling off hard in the late game, which is strange given the "Early game is super hard" logic of most players. Poison arrow is an interesting spell, due to the fact that it deals irresistable poison damage. RPois is not necessary, but is very useful for several branches, lest it tax your curing potions. Venom weapons are a type of weapon which is useful early, but fairly weak later. Insects are vulnerable to poison, being one of their few weaknesses.

Finally, the spell ignite poison offers many tactical options, from blanketing the area in poison and lighting it on fire to launching flaming poison arrows.

You must think I've contracted some form of retardation if you think you can persuade me with that pack of lies. Sting is the worst starting spell out of all the starting spells of the Mage backgrounds. Poison magic is still the worst magic you can have at early game as well as any point in the game. Resist poison is useless. Venom weapons have nothing to do with poison magic. Ignite poison is also a waste of time and resources since there are better things to put your skills in. Poison magic is THE WORST skill in the game, Poison magic is the worst designed thing in crawl, especially if you thing it hits any of the goals you said up there. I honestly think it's insulting that it still exists

This sounds more like "make the school make sense", rather than "remove". Of course, one can always wonder: does the PC need poison as something different than a weapon or spit brand? And: does monster rP need a rework (make it like magic resistance)?

[CypherZel]

Poison is an important part of the game for many reasons. First, Venom mages have some of the strongest early game while falling off hard in the late game, which is strange given the "Early game is super hard" logic of most players. Poison arrow is an interesting spell, due to the fact that it deals irresistable poison damage. RPois is not necessary, but is very useful for several branches, lest it tax your curing potions. Venom weapons are a type of weapon which is useful early, but fairly weak later. Insects are vulnerable to poison, being one of their few weaknesses.

Finally, the spell ignite poison offers many tactical options, from blanketing the area in poison and lighting it on fire to launching flaming poison arrows.

You must think I've contracted some form of retardation if you think you can persuade me with that pack of lies. Sting is the worst starting spell out of all the starting spells of the Mage backgrounds. Poison magic is still the worst magic you can have at early game as well as any point in the game. Resist poison is useless. Venom weapons have nothing to do with poison magic. Ignite poison is also a waste of time and resources since there are better things to put your skills in. Poison magic is THE WORST skill in the game, Poison magic is the worst designed thing in crawl, especially if you thing it hits any of the goals you said up there. I honestly think it's insulting that it still exists

This sounds more like "make the school make sense", rather than "remove". Of course, one can always wonder: does the PC need poison as something different than a weapon or spit brand? And: does monster rP need a rework (make it like magic resistance)?

Honestly although it can be reworked in my honest opinion I think removing it would be a better solution. It's only unique spells are rP and ignite poison, rP being pretty useless because of resist poison rings and cute poison and the other needs to have a opponent poisoned which is something most players won't be doing by the time this spell is suppose to be useful. I don't really feel like poison magic adds flavour to the game to be honest. To rework it and make it make sense, maybe make ignite poison a level 2 spell and bolt of venom level 3 with a lower power cap, maybe that's too extreme

[VeryAngryFelid]

I have just one question: have you played VM?

[CypherZel]

Yes

[VeryAngryFelid]

Weird. I found Mephitic Cloud and Venom Bolt amazing, I see your experience is different.
The only spell which I dislike from http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Poison_Magic is Alistair's Intoxication and I've heard it was changed in trunk.

[CypherZel]

Weird. I found Mephitic Cloud and Venom Bolt amazing, I see your experience is different.
The only spell which I dislike from http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Poison_Magic is Alistair's Intoxication and I've heard it was changed in trunk.

Forgot that was in there, mephitic cloud is a good spell I take back my words, the others are sorta useless or just versions of a spell type that aren't that great

[VeryAngryFelid]

Venom Bolt is the best spell in Spider, also you can create some zombies and skeletons and have fun shooting through meat shield. Necromancer would need to find Bolt of Draining for that. Poisonous Cloud is very unusual too, especially with Ignite Poison which you seem to dislike.