[proclick] new fork, hellcrawl


If it doesn't fit anywhere else, it belongs here. Also, come here if you just need to get hammered.

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 32

Joined: Saturday, 7th July 2018, 03:56

Post Thursday, 18th October 2018, 18:47

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

I'm about done with these stupid devastation brands also.

Donald hits you with a +1 long sword of devastation (36)!!!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The blow is devastating (47)!
You die...

Lmao

Spider Stomper

Posts: 213

Joined: Saturday, 29th October 2016, 17:41

Post Thursday, 18th October 2018, 20:43

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

Devastation is quite odd for a brand. I never use them as a player because they make your weapon way too slow but I fear them greatly when a monster has them and they are a heavy hitter.

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 32

Joined: Saturday, 7th July 2018, 03:56

Post Friday, 19th October 2018, 13:29

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

Something's wrong with Jiyva.
I just went to 200 piety and she didn't gift me a single mutation.
Really needs a fix as to how and when she implements mutations to be more static.

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 32

Joined: Saturday, 7th July 2018, 03:56

Post Friday, 19th October 2018, 13:30

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

severen wrote:Devastation is quite odd for a brand. I never use them as a player because they make your weapon way too slow but I fear them greatly when a monster has them and they are a heavy hitter.


I mean devastation is pretty ballin' on SOME builds. Try a Merfolk Skald with a Deva Demon Trident lol

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1737

Joined: Tuesday, 13th March 2012, 02:48

Post Friday, 19th October 2018, 21:35

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

amyqute1 wrote:Something's wrong with Jiyva.
I just went to 200 piety and she didn't gift me a single mutation.
Really needs a fix as to how and when she implements mutations to be more static.


What race?

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 32

Joined: Saturday, 7th July 2018, 03:56

Post Tuesday, 20th November 2018, 16:51

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

Rast wrote:
amyqute1 wrote:Something's wrong with Jiyva.
I just went to 200 piety and she didn't gift me a single mutation.
Really needs a fix as to how and when she implements mutations to be more static.


What race?


Not anything mutation immune

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 32

Joined: Saturday, 7th July 2018, 03:56

Post Tuesday, 20th November 2018, 16:53

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

Also something to be said about Torpor Knight + Statue Form. Far too strong and crowds up the entire top 20 with a couple exceptions. Been trying it and can get all Pan runes and enter Zot by XL22 lol

Spider Stomper

Posts: 213

Joined: Saturday, 29th October 2016, 17:41

Post Wednesday, 21st November 2018, 06:04

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

amyqute1 wrote:Also something to be said about Torpor Knight + Statue Form. Far too strong and crowds up the entire top 20 with a couple exceptions. Been trying it and can get all Pan runes and enter Zot by XL22 lol



Mmmmm I am not convinced Torpor Knight is better than some other strong gods. However Chei is definitely better than trunk since Int does more and starting with your god early is nice. However I have 9 runed the game a number of versions ago with a Op using dragon form of Sif and haste and its quite strong. I would say its stronger than TK + statue form. Although to get a high score you are going to leave a decent amount of XP on the table as you dive floors and getting both DF and haste online may not be that viable for non DE. TK might be one of the best happy mediums for diving levels as early as possible for the best score. Although I think there are a few other combos that can work.

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 32

Joined: Saturday, 7th July 2018, 03:56

Post Sunday, 2nd December 2018, 04:18

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

TK right now is so overpowered and imbalanced there's absolutely no reason to pick anything else and try to be competitive on the scoreboards with it lol. Nothing comes close. Yes Dragon Form is probably also strong as TK, all forms are. I just finished a TeTK game and had enough to sustain Statue Form, Animate Dead, Death Channel, Regen, Spectral Weapon, Infestation, Song of Slaying, Deflect Missiles, and still cast Tornado without having to wear Rings of Wizardry by the first floor of Pan. Yep, that's not broken.

Mind you this is outright skipping floors, and always automatically taking Mutagenic Shafts, and around XL20. Just dumb. Lmao

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 32

Joined: Saturday, 7th July 2018, 03:56

Post Sunday, 2nd December 2018, 04:21

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

There absolutely needs to be the added factor of actually finding the shrine and having the tempt of other gods along the way. The high scores just looks retarded right now. Lol

bel

Dis Charger

Posts: 2076

Joined: Tuesday, 3rd February 2015, 22:05

Post Monday, 3rd December 2018, 03:25

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

Score doesn't mean anything in particular. Especially Crawl's current score function, which is rather weird and nonsensical. The runes^2 term is particularly weird.

I haven't played with Torpor Knight much. But I doubt very much that starting with Chei is "better" than starting with Trog, say.
User avatar

Spider Stomper

Posts: 249

Joined: Thursday, 1st November 2018, 02:33

Post Monday, 3rd December 2018, 04:24

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

Have people interested in hellcrawl high scoring looked at the scores on the Japanese server? I recall some pretty fast runs, though I think they go speedrun mode which imo is not really the right thing for high scoring, too easy.

I think it's true that Chei is the best choice for scoring in hellcrawl, particularly since you can start with chei. Trog is fairly bad in hellcrawl ime because the piety decay is so fast. Makhleb might be a reasonable alternative, oka is also quite solid.

I really wish people would get into hellcrawl realtime speedrunning. There's a lot of potential there. It's probably winnable in under 10 minutes. The possibility of doing a no-rune game adds a lot of strategic depth that isn't there in dcss realtime, I think. Lots of interesting route possibilities.
This is where mechanical excellence and one-thousand four-hundred horsepower pays off.

Elite Crawl Power Player -- Pro Advice, Superior Design Opinion

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 34

Joined: Saturday, 25th December 2010, 07:00

Post Tuesday, 4th December 2018, 08:01

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

bel wrote:Also something to be said about Torpor Knight + Statue Form. Far too strong and crowds up the entire top 20 with a couple exceptions. Been trying it and can get all Pan runes and enter Zot by XL22 lol

Chei isnt stronger than other strong gods. Yes he is a bit stronger but also other goods are (Oka Pasive Heroism, Makhleb Damnation, Dethimenaios Athenae + Sinv although Sinv barely matters, buffed Quazal SH)

Topor Knight is so strong because from turn 1:
a) God with 35 piety and bend time available
b) plate mail - pondeurs is insignigicant for Chei worshipers

Topor Kinght is even stronger on strong race so hellcrawl VsTK is MiBe of normal crawl

Statue Form of Chei - on Octopus all day long, on Vinestalker very, very rarely. It competes with other spells - Darkness/Invisibility, Necromutation So its quite balanced.

bel wrote:Score doesn't mean anything in particular. Especially Crawl's current score function, which is rather weird and nonsensical. The runes^2 term is particularly weird.

Score equals to turncount speedrun in all rune game.

bel wrote:I haven't played with Torpor Knight much. But I doubt very much that starting with Chei is "better" than starting with Trog, say.

As above, TK get's plate mail and Trog falls a bit in late game.

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 32

Joined: Saturday, 7th July 2018, 03:56

Post Tuesday, 4th December 2018, 17:13

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

tealizard wrote:Have people interested in hellcrawl high scoring looked at the scores on the Japanese server? I recall some pretty fast runs, though I think they go speedrun mode which imo is not really the right thing for high scoring, too easy.

I think it's true that Chei is the best choice for scoring in hellcrawl, particularly since you can start with chei. Trog is fairly bad in hellcrawl ime because the piety decay is so fast. Makhleb might be a reasonable alternative, oka is also quite solid.

I really wish people would get into hellcrawl realtime speedrunning. There's a lot of potential there. It's probably winnable in under 10 minutes. The possibility of doing a no-rune game adds a lot of strategic depth that isn't there in dcss realtime, I think. Lots of interesting route possibilities.


10 minutes seems doable, Nearly all of my 9 runes are 50-70 minutes without really aiming for that, cut to the chase and you can probably edit out well over half of that.

Radzia: You are crazy, I've been trying to catch your VSTK score ever since it was put on there, but I can only come within what seems 3k or so turns. I probably need to memorize the Pan maps to cut out the other turns because i still find myself auto exploring them until the boss pops up. Are the maps static? I should probably screenshot the explored maps as a reference if so to try and fix that.

Oka is solid. On the high scores I am Moonbeam and Moonstruck and one of the only Not-TK scores is an Oka run. You'd have to get pretty lucky early on to do a no-resting completion to keep your turns down if you are eyeballing your spots on the high scores lists though.

Also, is it just me, or is focusing Bows/Crossbows simply unviable for hellcrawl except as a spare weapon? I've even gone Dith/Damnation and it's just a crapshow every time.

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 32

Joined: Saturday, 7th July 2018, 03:56

Post Tuesday, 4th December 2018, 17:17

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

Also, I have an old DsBe completion using Mace of Variability. Something like this is quite strong. I pretty much sucked but with the boost it has all the Pan lords stunlocked within a couple hits. Same could probably be said about Oka/Variability but you also have the chance with DsBe to Hurl Damnation, which kinda negates the spellcasting block. It's enough to take care of any nasties that might pop up that you have to take care of along the way.

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 32

Joined: Saturday, 7th July 2018, 03:56

Post Tuesday, 4th December 2018, 17:27

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

severen wrote:Devastation is quite odd for a brand. I never use them as a player because they make your weapon way too slow but I fear them greatly when a monster has them and they are a heavy hitter.


I retract my previous sentiments about Devastation. My highest score is using Devastation brand now for almost the entire game.
User avatar

Spider Stomper

Posts: 249

Joined: Thursday, 1st November 2018, 02:33

Post Wednesday, 5th December 2018, 02:19

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

I find my pure ranged characters often hit a wall at V:$. Not having that !augmentation bonus makes the initial rush a lot rougher. Have you tried that penetration spell though? Having a good ranged option definitely adds a lot to hellcrawl melee guys, particularly with song of slaying.

I would like to try realtime speedrunning myself, but I don't have a reliable connection to any hellcrawl servers. Now that there's an EU hellcrawl server though, should be a lot more accessible to the global realtime crowd.
This is where mechanical excellence and one-thousand four-hundred horsepower pays off.

Elite Crawl Power Player -- Pro Advice, Superior Design Opinion

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 32

Joined: Saturday, 7th July 2018, 03:56

Post Wednesday, 5th December 2018, 14:44

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

tealizard wrote:I find my pure ranged characters often hit a wall at V:$. Not having that !augmentation bonus makes the initial rush a lot rougher. Have you tried that penetration spell though? Having a good ranged option definitely adds a lot to hellcrawl melee guys, particularly with song of slaying.

I would like to try realtime speedrunning myself, but I don't have a reliable connection to any hellcrawl servers. Now that there's an EU hellcrawl server though, should be a lot more accessible to the global realtime crowd.


Sounds like you really like this fork, I do too. Yes, Vaults 3 seems to be about the cap for any pure ranged character, either Piercing or Portal Projectile be damned. I've gotten through it once or twice, but Pandemonium seems a near impossibility unless you are simply blinking around to grab the runes and leaving, which I suppose is an option, but then the Orb Run shortly after would seem even more problematic. I'm sure Severenx could manage, so *Shrug* :p

Lair Larrikin

Posts: 22

Joined: Saturday, 3rd September 2011, 07:10

Post Saturday, 8th December 2018, 16:42

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

Bug report for Green Draconian,

Green Draconians gain aptitude in poison magic, but there is no poison school. They should get a usable aptitude.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8624

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Saturday, 8th December 2018, 21:21

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

ryzol wrote:Bug report for Green Draconian,

Green Draconians gain aptitude in poison magic, but there is no poison school. They should get a usable aptitude.
This bug report also functions as an excellent vanilla DCSS shitpost

For this message the author duvessa has received thanks: 2
Fingolfin, nago

Spider Stomper

Posts: 213

Joined: Saturday, 29th October 2016, 17:41

Post Tuesday, 11th December 2018, 03:38

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

amyqute1 wrote:TK right now is so overpowered and imbalanced there's absolutely no reason to pick anything else and try to be competitive on the scoreboards with it lol. Nothing comes close. Yes Dragon Form is probably also strong as TK, all forms are. I just finished a TeTK game and had enough to sustain Statue Form, Animate Dead, Death Channel, Regen, Spectral Weapon, Infestation, Song of Slaying, Deflect Missiles, and still cast Tornado without having to wear Rings of Wizardry by the first floor of Pan. Yep, that's not broken.

Mind you this is outright skipping floors, and always automatically taking Mutagenic Shafts, and around XL20. Just dumb. Lmao



I haven't actually tried all those at once, but yeah the extra Int really gives you a serious edge in MP and running many things at once and functions as roughly similar to wizardry or +skills from other gods. That seems like a lot of casting skills that would need to be pretty high (much higher necro and air than I do and higher summoning), I assume your fighting, weapon skills, and defense skills are lower than I usually do, I tend to leverage the other chei stats equally. I usually run a form, deflect, regen, song. But all in all yeah that seems possible with help in aptitudes. I dunno about getting Tornado castable too often by first Pan without real Apt help. However I am pretty sure you can do that with Sif as well, it works differently since Sif's regen lets you operate at very low MP. I am not sure that mutagenic rifts are a good idea if you run constant forms though, many good ones are suppressed so you tend to select for bad ones more.

Spider Stomper

Posts: 213

Joined: Saturday, 29th October 2016, 17:41

Post Tuesday, 11th December 2018, 05:33

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

radzia wrote:
bel wrote:Also something to be said about Torpor Knight + Statue Form. Far too strong and crowds up the entire top 20 with a couple exceptions. Been trying it and can get all Pan runes and enter Zot by XL22 lol

Chei isnt stronger than other strong gods. Yes he is a bit stronger but also other goods are (Oka Pasive Heroism, Makhleb Damnation, Dethimenaios Athenae + Sinv although Sinv barely matters, buffed Quazal SH)

Topor Knight is so strong because from turn 1:
a) God with 35 piety and bend time available
b) plate mail - pondeurs is insignigicant for Chei worshipers

Topor Kinght is even stronger on strong race so hellcrawl VsTK is MiBe of normal crawl

Statue Form of Chei - on Octopus all day long, on Vinestalker very, very rarely. It competes with other spells - Darkness/Invisibility, Necromutation So its quite balanced.

bel wrote:Score doesn't mean anything in particular. Especially Crawl's current score function, which is rather weird and nonsensical. The runes^2 term is particularly weird.

Score equals to turncount speedrun in all rune game.

bel wrote:I haven't played with Torpor Knight much. But I doubt very much that starting with Chei is "better" than starting with Trog, say.

As above, TK get's plate mail and Trog falls a bit in late game.


I see you beat that high score I had on Berotato. Was that about 17.5k -17k turns? After I hit that 18.5k run I felt like 1k less was possible with really good luck and/or super strong start that let's you dive even earlier (I think I dove lair branch on that run) but I never bothered seriously trying for it. I doubt my OpTk statue/dragon former is the optimal setup for diving, I was just doing it for the heck of it without any special stuff like death channel or darkness etc and probably did unnecessary killing.

Yeah I agree with your chei assessment, I think Chei may have some advantage on turn count as well even if its just regen or whatever. Trog is actually not a great god in hellcrawl, although its Ok. And yeah high score is basically just getting all runes with lowest turn count and turn count has a rather large effect. Sinv used to be really important in Hellcrawl, but with the invis monster nerf/changes I barely care anymore.

I also find Royal Jelly much easier on TK/Chei since you can just hit Jelly a few times, blink away, immo and slouch to basically clear it fairly relialbly and cleanly. Not that other things can't do similar (like Qaz) but its nice to have a simple strat of just saving a few scrolls when you are trying to dive so aggressively.

Spider Stomper

Posts: 213

Joined: Saturday, 29th October 2016, 17:41

Post Tuesday, 11th December 2018, 05:42

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

tealizard wrote:Have people interested in hellcrawl high scoring looked at the scores on the Japanese server? I recall some pretty fast runs, though I think they go speedrun mode which imo is not really the right thing for high scoring, too easy.

I think it's true that Chei is the best choice for scoring in hellcrawl, particularly since you can start with chei. Trog is fairly bad in hellcrawl ime because the piety decay is so fast. Makhleb might be a reasonable alternative, oka is also quite solid.

I really wish people would get into hellcrawl realtime speedrunning. There's a lot of potential there. It's probably winnable in under 10 minutes. The possibility of doing a no-rune game adds a lot of strategic depth that isn't there in dcss realtime, I think. Lots of interesting route possibilities.


I'm not real sure, my high score sat on Berotato for months until Radzia beat it and the high score before that was a speedrun mode that sat for a number of months too. I didn't even think I could beat it until I had a rather low turn count run and got a lot more points then I was expecting. Then I figured I would just dive as fast as possible and after a few tries cut my run down by like 4k turns and got a score like 50% higher than those old speedrun high scores.

The problem itself is actually kind of interesting, but there is a lot of luck. You need a build that is strong enough to dive as early as possible while also able to kill cerebov and possibly antaeus as well and various tools like getting a lot of magic mapping scrolls can be very key. Good stair spawning etc. Also luck in where you spawn into in Pan can save a lot of time. Its really tight on a number of levels.

Personally I play really slow so real time speed running isn't something I am gonna be doing. But even the high score stuff is pretty under developed unless radzia has it all figured out. I mostly just felt like I could shave a lot of turns off so I tried it, but no way was I optimal.
User avatar

Spider Stomper

Posts: 249

Joined: Thursday, 1st November 2018, 02:33

Post Tuesday, 11th December 2018, 06:17

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

http://lazy-life.ddo.jp:8080/morgue-hel ... 190718.txt

That's the top score on lld, about 14.8k. A Chei character, unsurprisingly. In my opinion, you get too much experience in a speedrun mode game for it to be scored the same as a normal run, but I don't make the rules.
This is where mechanical excellence and one-thousand four-hundred horsepower pays off.

Elite Crawl Power Player -- Pro Advice, Superior Design Opinion
User avatar

Spider Stomper

Posts: 249

Joined: Thursday, 1st November 2018, 02:33

Post Friday, 14th December 2018, 12:04

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

Also, I generally play very slowly and I haven't tried a fast realtime run in a long time (again, because my connection is dog shit), but I have played hellcrawl deliberately fast in realtime and it was extremely good. That was over a year ago and my time wasn't all that fast (something like an 82 minutes lol) but as Ferris Bueller said "if you have the means, I highly recommend it."
This is where mechanical excellence and one-thousand four-hundred horsepower pays off.

Elite Crawl Power Player -- Pro Advice, Superior Design Opinion

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 168

Joined: Tuesday, 25th October 2011, 00:06

Post Sunday, 16th December 2018, 03:43

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

Hello, today I tried hellcrawl for the first time. I liked it a lot, to be fair, I had a blast playing it. Not sure though, if it is because of hellcrawl being better than normal dcss or because of the new experience.
Now to details/bugs:
  • Hellcrawl has big problem with manual and descriptions:
    • there are no new races in game manual;
    • I wasted a minute after reading Sandblast description "Consumes eight stones..." trying to find stones ("Hmm, there are no stones in my inventory, were they goldified? If that's so, where would they belong now?");
    • I tried titans using big clubs and ?/i told Me there are such things as giant spiked clubs, so I ended up waiting for one forever. Was I unlucky or were gsc actually removed but they're still mentioned in "lookup description"?
    • description of Blades skill forgot to lose the word 'Short' in one instance.
  • Shopping is bugged: purchased items don't disappear from shop until you reenter it.
  • Entering PoG with '>' on a rune floor requires 'yes' for confirmation.
  • I learnt in a very funny way that flaming brand was reworked: I found new flaming Blade and decided to compare if it deals more damage with stabbing than my current dagger, so I sneaky passwalled at that dangerous group of skeletal warriors, stabbed the first one and waked up the rest with big damn fiery explosion! Later on with another character I decided to rebrand my vampiric Blade for extended. Guess what? I got flaming. And yeah, the character was a stabber again. Imo this is not a brand that belongs to Blades. I think it would be reasonable not to generate Blades with it.
  • I think I like most if not all the changes that were made. With one big exception: net removal. Stabbers need them.
If you spot a grammar mistake in my post I will appreciate if you PM it.

For this message the author Yermak has received thanks:
Implojin

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 168

Joined: Tuesday, 25th October 2011, 00:06

Post Sunday, 16th December 2018, 14:45

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

Ok, my second day of hellcrawl:
  Code:
    713916192 Yermak the Ruffian (level 27, 193/245 (249) HPs) *SPEED*
             Began as a Gnoll Torpor Knight on Dec 16, 2018.
             Was the Champion of Cheibriados.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 9 runes!

             The game lasted 03:03:13 (9664 turns).

There was also a death in Zot:5 with another character at 9k mark, it would be a slightly better run.

Is it possible to get a link to CBO hellcrawl morgue? LLD has clear way to view hellcrawl scoring along with morgue links.

Edit: it turns out that hellcrawl morgues are in the same directory as the usual ones, thanks to advil for this insight.
http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/ ... 140530.txt
Last edited by Yermak on Monday, 17th December 2018, 15:32, edited 3 times in total.
If you spot a grammar mistake in my post I will appreciate if you PM it.

For this message the author Yermak has received thanks:
radzia
User avatar

Spider Stomper

Posts: 249

Joined: Thursday, 1st November 2018, 02:33

Post Monday, 17th December 2018, 00:07

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

I don't know a way to get cbro morgues other than going straight to the morgue directory. It's a pain in the ass. LLD is so good.

Looks like you've set a new standard for hellcrawl speedrunning lol
This is where mechanical excellence and one-thousand four-hundred horsepower pays off.

Elite Crawl Power Player -- Pro Advice, Superior Design Opinion

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 34

Joined: Saturday, 25th December 2010, 07:00

Post Thursday, 27th December 2018, 19:07

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

I wondered what would happened if one of tier 1 speedruners played hellcrawl

Yermak wrote:Ok, my second day of hellcrawl: The game lasted 03:03:13 (9664 turns).



Congratz Yermak, thats impresive

It's funny that 12 result on berotato is still my TrSk of Chei played long long ago which I autoexploread all levels beside hells

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 48

Joined: Sunday, 20th August 2017, 06:29

Post Friday, 28th December 2018, 06:11

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

Hey hellmonk would you be willing to rename Recall Ancestor to Ancestral Recall, possibly with associated meme flavor text? It would be funny I think.

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 32

Joined: Saturday, 7th July 2018, 03:56

Post Friday, 22nd February 2019, 03:58

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

User avatar

Temple Termagant

Posts: 8

Joined: Monday, 11th June 2018, 17:56

Post Tuesday, 26th February 2019, 07:57

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

High scores for hellcrawl on CKO can be found here: https://crawl.kelbi.org/morgue-test/highscores.html

For this message the author floraline has received thanks:
chequers

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 32

Joined: Saturday, 7th July 2018, 03:56

Post Tuesday, 26th February 2019, 18:05

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

Wrong link? Those are not Hellcrawl scores. I think I have the top score there
User avatar

Temple Termagant

Posts: 8

Joined: Monday, 11th June 2018, 17:56

Post Wednesday, 27th February 2019, 07:22

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

amyqute1 wrote:Wrong link? Those are not Hellcrawl scores. I think I have the top score there


You have to click on "hellcrawl" at the top. it looks like Moonbeam has the only two wins on the server, is that you?

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 32

Joined: Saturday, 7th July 2018, 03:56

Post Wednesday, 27th February 2019, 14:55

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

I totally didn't see the top panel. My bad! Yes that's me

Dungeon Dilettante

Posts: 3

Joined: Wednesday, 12th June 2019, 20:10

Post Wednesday, 12th June 2019, 20:46

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

I apologize if this counts as a resurrection.

I just came back to DCSS after a long hiatus and I wanted to say that I am a big fan of this fork. Great job and many thanks. I thoroughly enjoy it.

I like that it removes most of the things I didn't care for in vanilla; cursed items, ID shenanigans, recasting charms/transmutations, stairs, ghosts, etc. I especially liked the lack of upstairs. I really like that you have to progress forward; you can't abuse stairs to win and you can't backtrack to get EXP or good items from a tough unique... It forces a lot of interesting decisions that I enjoy making.

I also liked how streamlined the dungeon layout is. I can actually get a full rune run in with an afternoon off, instead of what usually felt like a whole day. Having the branches in a predetermined order with the ability to skip lets you aim your character development for specific areas and skip branches when you simply can't handle that specific one. You can even go full speedrun and just skip the runes and run off with the Orb. It is a great design and I really enjoy the flow of the game compared to vanilla.

Casual mode was a great way to get back into things while I re-learned how to crawl. Definitely appreciated the option. I finally did a 9-rune on Normal today, but the casual mode definitely allowed me to learn the fundamentals again without splating before I got to endgame situations.

I loved the changes to Qazal. I feel like you got the balance right; you trade all that extra attention for the ability to actually kill things with Invocations and just enough defensive perks to handle the extra heat.

At any rate, I just wanted to say thanks and I hope that you keep developing this fork.

Spider Stomper

Posts: 213

Joined: Saturday, 29th October 2016, 17:41

Post Thursday, 13th June 2019, 02:11

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

TBDA wrote:I apologize if this counts as a resurrection.

I just came back to DCSS after a long hiatus and I wanted to say that I am a big fan of this fork. Great job and many thanks. I thoroughly enjoy it.

I like that it removes most of the things I didn't care for in vanilla; cursed items, ID shenanigans, recasting charms/transmutations, stairs, ghosts, etc. I especially liked the lack of upstairs. I really like that you have to progress forward; you can't abuse stairs to win and you can't backtrack to get EXP or good items from a tough unique... It forces a lot of interesting decisions that I enjoy making.

I also liked how streamlined the dungeon layout is. I can actually get a full rune run in with an afternoon off, instead of what usually felt like a whole day. Having the branches in a predetermined order with the ability to skip lets you aim your character development for specific areas and skip branches when you simply can't handle that specific one. You can even go full speedrun and just skip the runes and run off with the Orb. It is a great design and I really enjoy the flow of the game compared to vanilla.

Casual mode was a great way to get back into things while I re-learned how to crawl. Definitely appreciated the option. I finally did a 9-rune on Normal today, but the casual mode definitely allowed me to learn the fundamentals again without splating before I got to endgame situations.

I loved the changes to Qazal. I feel like you got the balance right; you trade all that extra attention for the ability to actually kill things with Invocations and just enough defensive perks to handle the extra heat.

At any rate, I just wanted to say thanks and I hope that you keep developing this fork.


Now try a 1 rune game ;).

bel

Dis Charger

Posts: 2076

Joined: Tuesday, 3rd February 2015, 22:05

Post Friday, 21st June 2019, 20:21

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

Trog seems to be gifting too much crap ammo. Bow ammo is gone, and he seems to be gifting a ton of throwing stuff for no reason (even with 0 throwing). Also, this mechanic makes it quite hard to keep piety up.

Spider Stomper

Posts: 213

Joined: Saturday, 29th October 2016, 17:41

Post Thursday, 18th July 2019, 19:35

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

bel wrote:Trog seems to be gifting too much crap ammo. Bow ammo is gone, and he seems to be gifting a ton of throwing stuff for no reason (even with 0 throwing). Also, this mechanic makes it quite hard to keep piety up.


I kinda think Trog needs a slight rework in general. Nothing major per se, but change gifts and somehow balance out berserk with loss of permabuffs/different enemies

I haven't really thought about it deeply but Trog has a few major differences in HC:
1) significance of gifts is different
2) ammo is much different (probably should just be replaced with armor gifts although free rocks is nice on ogre/troll but at the same time giants drop alot of these)
3) Piety is different in HC
4) Berserk as a buff is inferior to multiple permacharms (but less burdensome skill wise)
5) berserk as a buff is limited by piety (probably one of the major issues)
6) berserk is not limited by food at all (this is nice but in no way makes up for piety )
7) IMO the advantage of Trog of being able to go more offensive doesn't work as well in the more dangerous portions of hellcrawl. Going berserk and summoning is gonna get you killed in HC Zot if you are going against the wrong stuff and the wrong stuff can be pretty common in HC zot. I feel like its not that useful when you need it most and therefore is mostly just a detriment (opportunity cost wise) once you are going through zot. I just don't feel like Trog is that useful against something nasty like a robin mob or subtractor snake pull etc. Your summons can do some damage and help but they will die fast and you probably will drop out of berserk and get murdered when you are slow. Berserk won't even help you run since robins are so fast or the snake pulls you. Also the extra recovery for berserkers is really annoying with the HC mechanics that limit the time you can spend on a floor.
8) Generally Oka just works better since it has the same advantages + more without the limitations (and even losing out on just basic fighter charms like regen, slaying etc is a real loss). Trog gets summons that are nice and that's about it.

bel

Dis Charger

Posts: 2076

Joined: Tuesday, 3rd February 2015, 22:05

Post Friday, 19th July 2019, 02:55

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

Trog's piety decay is also faster. I do not find Trog to be particularly good in Hellcrawl, though it's still ok. Trog does begin falling off as the game goes on, which is not a bad thing in and of itself.

In general, I think Hellcrawl can do away altogether with piety decay. There's an actual clock in Hellcrawl and backtracking is very limited; so there's no need to have a sort-of-clock carryover from DCSS.

For this message the author bel has received thanks:
braveplatypus

Spider Stomper

Posts: 213

Joined: Saturday, 29th October 2016, 17:41

Post Thursday, 15th August 2019, 17:08

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

bel wrote:Trog's piety decay is also faster. I do not find Trog to be particularly good in Hellcrawl, though it's still ok. Trog does begin falling off as the game goes on, which is not a bad thing in and of itself.

In general, I think Hellcrawl can do away altogether with piety decay. There's an actual clock in Hellcrawl and backtracking is very limited; so there's no need to have a sort-of-clock carryover from DCSS.


Yeah I think I agree and Trog is actually net negative on health regen compared with a permacharm regen character and due to the nature of a Be you are likely to need to heal a good amount of damage overall. Trog's regen costs piety so it can't be up all the time even if it give more regen while its up its still vastly inferior. Using berserk too much means you are slowed (or worse) alot as well. Because you are slowed and have worse regen you get a double whammy because of both piety decay and clock mechanics being tighter. I have had two hellcrawl OpBe hit the turn limit on V3 two different times without even trying. I basically ran into it with normal play in the middle the 3rd quarter of the way through clearing, since you don't know where the rune is and the crowded nature of v3 finding the rune on the 3rd portion is pretty likely (50/50 or 1/3 of the time whatever). My OpBe were otherwise fine, I mean as fine as an OpBe can be. This is mostly isolated to V3 because its just much bigger and slower than most other levels. But it illustrates the difference fairly well I think.

Even just being able to use Trog regen more liberally due better peity management might change this, or alternatively get rid of all piety decay on Trog EXCEPT when running regen and make regen a god-based permacharm
Previous

Return to Crazy Yiuf's Corner

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by ST Software for PTF.