[proclick] new fork, hellcrawl


If it doesn't fit anywhere else, it belongs here. Also, come here if you just need to get hammered.

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Post Thursday, 22nd September 2016, 11:47

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

Yes, first win.
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Post Thursday, 22nd September 2016, 18:09

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

My list of changes:

+ Remove player ghosts
+ Remove hunger, food
+ Remove deep water; Merfolk, Octopode nullifies shallow water penalty, but does not give any bonus
+ Ammo always mulches, increase avg. amount of ammo in stacks generated on ground
+ Stats cannot go below 1
+ Remove Dith’s “no fire” conduct
+ Anyone except Demigod can worship Yred (i.e., allow gargoyles)
+ Remove wands of hasting, heal wounds, teleportation; increase generation of potions of speed
+ Remove wands of flame, lightning, polymorph

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Post Thursday, 22nd September 2016, 21:49

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

DracheReborn wrote:Congrats Sandman25/FuriousCat. Only online win so far for hellcrawl, I think?

Possible issue with uniques placement. I ran into a floor with at least 4 uniques (Josephine, Nessos, Rupert, and Blork in Orc:2). I'm pretty sure the same thing can happen in regular crawl, but I'm wondering if it's more common in hellcrawl because of fewer places that some uniques can generate.


i don't *think* that should matter; increasing the # of uniques will increase frequency of appearance, but decreasing the number of floors will just decrease the total number of uniques appearing in a game, not cause them to spawn more densely. someone else will correct me if i'm wrong
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Post Thursday, 22nd September 2016, 22:31

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

DracheReborn wrote:Possible issue with uniques placement. I ran into a floor with at least 4 uniques (Josephine, Nessos, Rupert, and Blork in Orc:2). I'm pretty sure the same thing can happen in regular crawl, but I'm wondering if it's more common in hellcrawl because of fewer places that some uniques can generate.


One might even say that it's...
Spoiler: show
crawling with uniques.

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Post Friday, 23rd September 2016, 03:06

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

and into wrote:My list of changes:

+ Remove player ghosts
+ Remove hunger, food
+ Remove deep water; Merfolk, Octopode nullifies shallow water penalty, but does not give any bonus
+ Ammo always mulches, increase avg. amount of ammo in stacks generated on ground
+ Stats cannot go below 1
+ Remove Dith’s “no fire” conduct
+ Anyone except Demigod can worship Yred (i.e., allow gargoyles)
+ Remove wands of hasting, heal wounds, teleportation; increase generation of potions of speed
+ Remove wands of flame, lightning, polymorph


Good catches! For deep water thought it could just be 2 levels of water status, one worse then the other. And for ammo just remove all ammo from the game and reduce the damage of (cross)bows already, it's just way too strong for this game. Oh and removing spell haste might be a good idea too it's so good since it combos so hard with stairdancing (and is very spammable in general with the no more limit on mp thing).

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Post Friday, 23rd September 2016, 07:18

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

PleasingFungus wrote:
DracheReborn wrote:Congrats Sandman25/FuriousCat. Only online win so far for hellcrawl, I think?

Possible issue with uniques placement. I ran into a floor with at least 4 uniques (Josephine, Nessos, Rupert, and Blork in Orc:2). I'm pretty sure the same thing can happen in regular crawl, but I'm wondering if it's more common in hellcrawl because of fewer places that some uniques can generate.


i don't *think* that should matter; increasing the # of uniques will increase frequency of appearance, but decreasing the number of floors will just decrease the total number of uniques appearing in a game, not cause them to spawn more densely. someone else will correct me if i'm wrong


Possible!

There are other oddities with monster placement though, like Blork shouldn't have appeared so late, I think? And I just checked my (new) game, there are jackals and adders on D10. Seems unusual.

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Post Saturday, 24th September 2016, 02:20

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

Important cool update alert
I have made some more changes over the past few days. The cpo build should be updated in a few days, chequers is on vacation.

  • Ammunition always mulches (except nets); ammo generation has been significantly increased to compensate. Returning ammunition is removed. This is meant as a quality of life change, not a ranged combat balance change. I'm open to pursuing total ammo removal in the future, but I though that would be more work.
  • Only one lair branch is available in each game. Maximum rune count is 14. This change broke the grunt_ashenzari_visionary vault, so I removed it. Patch welcome if anyone wants to fix it.
  • Removed the ability to sever hydra heads. Hydras spawn with an extra head (5-9 rather than 4-8)
  • Blink frogs no longer have a special-cased interaction with bend space
  • Porcupines are no longer spiny and have slightly increased damage
  • Removed hippogrives, sky beasts, red devils, krakens, iron golems.
  • Added some Lair monsters to mid-late dungeon. Wyverns and hydras are more common than before, and you'll see spiny frogs, blink frogs, rime drakes, torpor snails, (rarely) death yaks, and (rarely) fire crabs.
  • Orc high priest and Orc sorcerer can spawn in mid-late dungeon. Both are at pretty low weights though.
  • Changed some other monster distributions in mid-dungeon. For example, bullfrogs should spawn much less often and some weak enemies should not spawn as deep. While working on this, I learned that some crawl monsters spawn over hilariously long ranges. I expect to do more work on dungeon monster distribution in the future, but for now it's on hold unless there's a major balance problem.

Thanks to everyone who has played so far. For anyone who plays after the changes, please let me know how the experience curve feels or if you notice any oddities with ammunition. Also please let me know when you run into the inevitable game crash because I missed a .des file or a line in mon-pick-data.

I will try to start work on food removal soon, but no promises that I get to it this week. Otherwise, I expect to start working on some consumable "reforms" (removals) and the removal of some spells. Apportation, corpse rot, the list could go on... I also plan on cutting tomb and moving elf into vaults:1.
Remove spell hunger.

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Post Saturday, 24th September 2016, 12:01

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

My DsFE entered Depths and found about 10 monsters in view, I don't have amazing defense (sacrificed EV-3, missing a hand, lost gloves to Ds mutations) so I casted Haste, Fireballs to attract attention and stairdanced. It was hilariously easy, after moving upstairs with adjacent monsters I casted Blink and then Fireball/Bolt of Fire, more Blinks as necessary. Then I waited out contamination (Ru's piety does not decay), casted Haste again (waiting out contamination if miscast, I use +0 Maxwell's etheric cage {RegenMP+ *Contam rElec MP+4} which increases contamination) and repeated, again Blink and Fireballs/Bolts of Fire, and then again and again.
So my suggestions
1) remove Haste spell (it was mentioned before ITT)
2) move Blink to level 4-5, Passage of Golubria to level 6 (CBlink is already level 8)
3) maybe make getting damage stop using stairs unless you go upstairs immediately after going downstairs? that's cruel, I know, but I actually played a fork which had this, it made the game much harder but not impossible, even Tomb.
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Post Saturday, 24th September 2016, 12:25

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

I'd try another few runs, but it hasn't updated on cpo yet.

In my opinion removing utility spells or making them less accessible is very much the wrong way to go. The utility spells are where the crawl magic model almost gets it right. Making direct damage spells into weapons instead, then you have something, but that's a lot of work. If someone's finding depths too easy, perhaps the solution is to remove depths.
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Post Saturday, 24th September 2016, 13:48

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

Depths are too easy because you can abuse Blink and Haste with casters and stairs with melee characters. IMHO it is enough to fix those issues and Depths will be ok.
I like new Iron Troll by the way, it's really dangerous with fast speed and rF+/rC+.
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Post Saturday, 24th September 2016, 14:26

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

Yes, I've explained how to fix the stairs problem, but it's not something you can do by fiddling with values in a .h file.

I don't really care about haste, makes no sense to get it in a typical 3 rune game. I don't think there's a real problem with blink or other low level goodspells. You're ultimately campaigning for a really dumb game if stuff like that ceases to exist.
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Post Saturday, 24th September 2016, 17:27

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

I'm probably not going to mess with blink or PoG in the immediate future. Agree that there should be (at minimum) serious cuts/changes to direct damage spells. Apportation and corpse rot have serious problems for other reasons, but perhaps some sort of adjustment can be made; I'll think about it some more. Not sure what I can do about stairs with my meager coding skills.
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Post Saturday, 24th September 2016, 17:29

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

Yes, it will be harder to game the system. Again, what's the point of having monsters with high melee attack if you are never forced to melee them.
I guess you don't play casters much, Haste is very easy to get in 3 rune game, even in hellcrawl.
I sacrificed evocations so learning Haste was a no-brianer. There is still too much XP IMHO

  Code:
* Level 23.0 Fighting
 - Level 16.0 Maces & Flails
 * Level 13.2 Armour
 + Level 15.5 Dodging
 - Level 1.7 Stealth
 + Level 18.4 Spellcasting
 - Level 19.5 Conjurations
 - Level 14.0 Charms
 - Level 4.0 Summonings
 - Level 9.1 Necromancy
 - Level 6.0 Translocations
 - Level 13.1 Fire Magic
 - Level 6.0 Ice Magic
 - Level 1.7 Air Magic

a - Apportation           Tloc           ######....   1%          1    None
b - Iskenderun's Battles  Conj/Chrm      #######.     1%          5    None
c - Orb of Destruction    Conj           #######...   1%          7    #####..
e - Passwall              Tmut/Erth      ###.......   10%         2    None
f - Fireball              Conj/Fire      #######...   1%          5    None
h - Bolt of Draining      Conj/Necr      #######...   1%          5    None
l - Bolt of Fire          Conj/Fire      #######...   1%          6    ##.....
r - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       ######       1%          2    None
s - Ozocubu's Armour      Chrm/Ice       ######..     1%          3    None
u - Dispel Undead         Necr           ######..     3%          5    None
z - Throw Flame           Conj/Fire      ######       0%          2    None
B - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          1%          2    None
G - Sublimation of Blood  Necr           ######....   1%          2    None
H - Haste                 Chrm           #######.     2%          6    ##.....
P - Summon Butterflies    Summ           #####...     1%          1    None

https://crawl.project357.org/morgue/San ... 172106.txt
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Post Saturday, 24th September 2016, 17:36

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

What's the problem with direct damage spells exactly?
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Post Saturday, 24th September 2016, 17:45

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

VeryAngryFelid wrote:What's the problem with direct damage spells exactly?

My problem is mostly that there's so many of them and that a lot of them do basically the same thing with a different element. For example, there's bolt of fire, bolt of cold, lightning bolt, bolt of draining, venom bolt, and bolt of magma. I think that's too many spells that serve the same purpose and are used the exact same way in most combat scenarios.
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Post Saturday, 24th September 2016, 18:20

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

+1 for reducing direct damage spell types

Re food reform, if food removal turns out to be too complicated, a relatively easy change is to reduce the types of permafood. FR: keep pizza, make it magically edible for both carnivores and herbivores. And fruits have to stick around for Fedhas, I guess.

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Post Saturday, 24th September 2016, 18:46

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

Hellmonk wrote:
VeryAngryFelid wrote:What's the problem with direct damage spells exactly?

My problem is mostly that there's so many of them and that a lot of them do basically the same thing with a different element. For example, there's bolt of fire, bolt of cold, lightning bolt, bolt of draining, venom bolt, and bolt of magma. I think that's too many spells that serve the same purpose and are used the exact same way in most combat scenarios.


Bolt of fire has range 7, bolt of cold has range 6, lightning bolt can hit the same target twice and is very loud, bolt of draining is level 5 and nice with zombies, venom bolt is level 5 and great vs insects and nice with zombies, bolt of magma is when you need physical damage. Also some monsters are much harder with those spells, for example, undead are immune to venom/draining and resistant to cold. When playing caster I usually try to get 2 different elements and depending on what I get I have quite different games.
I don't see why you are going to remove some of those spells while still keeping 6 weapon categories. I believe difference between M&F, long blade and staves is much smaller than for spells.
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Post Saturday, 24th September 2016, 18:52

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

Also let's not forget about other spells. If you are going to remove bolt of fire (for example), what am I going to do as FE who starts with Fireball but has no bolts? Train Ice for bolt of Cold like IE does? That will result in less difference between backgrounds/characters IMHO.
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Post Saturday, 24th September 2016, 20:09

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

VeryAngryFelid wrote:If you are going to remove bolt of fire (for example), what am I going to do as FE who starts with Fireball but has no bolts?
Cast Fireball, I imagine

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Post Saturday, 24th September 2016, 21:16

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

Well, casting a fireball at adjacent monster in corridor is not fun ;)
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Post Saturday, 24th September 2016, 21:29

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

I just pushed a few more minor changes. They should show up with the cpo update.
  • Removed random item generation in abyss and pan.
  • Insubstantial wisps and wisp form are gone.
  • adjusted some monster weights in swamp. More thorn hunters, more tentacled monstrosities, less frogs, spriggan defenders can spawn (extremely rare).
  • removed a couple very weak enemies from vault spawns.
Remove spell hunger.

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Post Saturday, 24th September 2016, 23:35

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

VeryAngryFelid wrote:What's the problem with direct damage spells exactly?


Problem is six or so attack flavors, about ten attack patterns, most of which differ in trivial ways like range, and like 70% of the possible combinations manifest as different spells many of which having high mp costs that result in a lot of luring, kiting, and resting. If you're going to spam it, it should be a weapon because that's what the interface provides good facilities for spamming. Choosing among different spells that all do roughly the same thing with minor variation in mp cost and attack pattern is tedious af. The tactics of ranged spells are nowhere near interesting enough to redeem that.
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Post Sunday, 25th September 2016, 12:45

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

My hellcrawl save on project 357 wont load =/ Any way to fix?

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Post Sunday, 25th September 2016, 12:47

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

VeryAngryFelid wrote:Well, casting a fireball at adjacent monster in corridor is not fun ;)


Implying one wouldnt use sticky flame
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Post Sunday, 25th September 2016, 13:15

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

lethediver wrote:My hellcrawl save on project 357 wont load =/ Any way to fix?


Yeah, I think I'm having the same problem. I don't really care about losing the savefile, but the game doesn't even start. Maybe something like links for different updates or something.
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Post Sunday, 25th September 2016, 13:36

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

Well i guess that's one way to make the game shorter.

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Post Sunday, 25th September 2016, 13:44

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

goodcoolguy wrote:
VeryAngryFelid wrote:What's the problem with direct damage spells exactly?


Problem is six or so attack flavors, about ten attack patterns, most of which differ in trivial ways like range, and like 70% of the possible combinations manifest as different spells many of which having high mp costs that result in a lot of luring, kiting, and resting. If you're going to spam it, it should be a weapon because that's what the interface provides good facilities for spamming. Choosing among different spells that all do roughly the same thing with minor variation in mp cost and attack pattern is tedious af. The tactics of ranged spells are nowhere near interesting enough to redeem that.


This is not just flavor like with M&F, LBl and staves, the element types actually differentiate schools because most monsters in crawl have at least 1 resistance. It is good to have 10 attack patterns, it is good to spend time on thinking instead of pressing tab. It is good to have more powerful attacks than melee but which cannot be spammed (otherwise that would be overpowered, wouldn't it?).
If you don't want to kite, lure and rest, just don't play casters. I am sure I am not alone who likes the playstyle (at least sometimes). For me the tactics of ranged spells are billion times more rich and interesting than playing melee characters. After spectating other players I noticed that my impatience with spells makes me play suboptimal, even with bolt spells it requires some thinking because you can and should position yourself in the fight, trying to line monsters for bolts, freezing cloud and fireballs.
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Post Sunday, 25th September 2016, 13:46

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

lethediver wrote:
VeryAngryFelid wrote:Well, casting a fireball at adjacent monster in corridor is not fun ;)


Implying one wouldnt use sticky flame


Sticky flame is not that good when you have no room to run. Its main point is DoT when you don't get any damage. When I am blocked in dead end corridor: if my melee is powerful, I will just kill the monster in 2 attacks (and why bother with sticky flame?). If my melee is not powerful, I will take much damage because sticky flame deals very low damage per turn.
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Post Sunday, 25th September 2016, 13:57

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

You only think the tactics are deeper because they're attached to garbage characters you have to be more careful with. As far as optimal play is concerned, there is essentially never a time when the number of monsters you're hitting with a single cast matters, since almost all the time either the correct number is one or the particulars of how the fight is carried out don't matter.

I did not say I don't want to kite, by the way. What I said is that kiting, luring, and resting a lot are poor gameplay and should not be a part of the game.
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Post Sunday, 25th September 2016, 14:16

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

Luring monster to nearby good position is what makes crawl interesting, you do it all the time in battle and call it "positioning" there. I don't how it is possible to remove deepest tactics and still have a better roguelike. Personally I use melee characters as time-killers, it's just mindless autoexplore and tab with occasional teleport or quaffing might. Is it what we want to have for casters too? "Spammable" is not what makes a good roguelike good IMHO, it becomes exercise in patience and paying attention to popcorn
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Post Sunday, 25th September 2016, 14:37

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

Well, you're the one who brought up optimal play. "Nearby" is not what you do in optimal play, as I'm sure you know.

I always come back to this point, but if you want to talk "deep tactics" in crawl, ally tactics are the most crawl has to offer (and mind you, I don't think that's saying much). Even most good players don't seem to fully grasp ally play. As far as direct damage tactics, it's telling how often arguments in their defense come back to the interface issue, i.e. "tab." Frankly, I think you're tricking yourself into believing you're making a real choice on each cast simply because it's hard to accept the amount of key presses you're subjecting yourself to if you don't.

Spamming is good when it works and it should be as painless as possible. Moving toward something where more encounters are sufficiently consequential that you don't spam your way through them is good, but that has to come with reductions in the overall length of the game. That's what seems interesting about this fork.
Last edited by goodcoolguy on Sunday, 25th September 2016, 15:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Sunday, 25th September 2016, 15:01

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

You sound like there is a single spell in the whole game. Yes, I am making decisions with casters every time, call me bad player for that if you want.
Here is again my spell list from last winner.

  Code:
a - Apportation           Tloc           ######....   1%          1    None
b - Iskenderun's Battles  Conj/Chrm      #######.     1%          5    None
c - Orb of Destruction    Conj           #######...   1%          7    #####..
e - Passwall              Tmut/Erth      ###.......   10%         2    None
f - Fireball              Conj/Fire      #######...   1%          5    None
h - Bolt of Draining      Conj/Necr      #######...   1%          5    None
l - Bolt of Fire          Conj/Fire      #######...   1%          6    ##.....
r - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       ######       1%          2    None
s - Ozocubu's Armour      Chrm/Ice       ######..     1%          3    None
u - Dispel Undead         Necr           ######..     3%          5    None
z - Throw Flame           Conj/Fire      ######       0%          2    None
B - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          1%          2    None
G - Sublimation of Blood  Necr           ######....   1%          2    None
H - Haste                 Chrm           #######.     2%          6    ##.....
P - Summon Butterflies    Summ           #####...     1%          1    None


Do you think there is no room for making decisions and mistakes here? Please don't tell it does not matter what I cast because in this case I can say that it does not matter what weapon you use as melee and where you fight which is absurd of course.
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Overestimated: AC, GDS
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Blades Runner

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Post Sunday, 25th September 2016, 15:30

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

It's not that it doesn't matter, it's that the choice is not complicated or interesting. In other words, between the cases where it's obvious what to cast/target and it doesn't matter what you cast within reason, you've got almost everything.
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Post Sunday, 25th September 2016, 16:36

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

By that logic playing crawl does not make much sense either, it's pretty obvious what to do on every turn.
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Tomb Titivator

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Post Sunday, 25th September 2016, 17:13

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

It's okay, his ideas are predicated on the premise that crawl must be mind-numbingly long and easy

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Post Sunday, 25th September 2016, 21:43

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

I updated hellcrawl but there's a bug, so it won't work until hellmonk fixes the bug and I rebuild the cpo version.

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Post Sunday, 25th September 2016, 23:34

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

should be fixed now, apologies for problemos.
Remove spell hunger.

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Post Sunday, 25th September 2016, 23:46

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

Thanks bro, playing now.

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Post Monday, 26th September 2016, 08:55

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

VeryAngryFelid wrote:I don't see why you are going to remove some of those spells while still keeping 6 weapon categories. I believe difference between M&F, long blade and staves is much smaller than for spells.


Well, new FR for Hellmonk. Reduce weapon types :D
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Post Monday, 26th September 2016, 09:19

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

DracheReborn wrote:Well, new FR for Hellmonk. Reduce weapon types

Yeah, just one weapon type which has cleaving, reaching, riposte and stabbing bonus. Speed is a possible brand and the top-tier version is a giant-sized spiked one, which can only be wielded by ogres and trolls :)
HOFEMDHeHuReMDHuHOCjDsHuNaCjHuHuSENeGEFEMDBeDDFiHOWzVpVMHuEEHEMoDEHuDDAsHaBeKoAK
CeVMMfWnMiAKTeAMDrIEFoVMVSFiMuVMGhGlVpMoHaWrSpWzOgGlTrMoCeWnMfBeMiSkDrEEGrFiFoGlDgEnFeNe
OpGlHuSuDDArHaCKSpAEGrTmDgFEDsCjGhMoHuVMHaAMBaEnHuMoHOWnDsWzDDHuDgWnGnBeFeIEMiEnMfCj

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Post Monday, 26th September 2016, 09:45

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

Sprucery wrote:
DracheReborn wrote:Well, new FR for Hellmonk. Reduce weapon types

Yeah, just one weapon type which has cleaving, reaching, riposte and stabbing bonus. Speed is a possible brand and the top-tier version is a giant-sized spiked one, which can only be wielded by ogres and trolls :)


Eh, this is hellcrawl. The point of hellcrawl is removing things (see first post).
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Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Monday, 26th September 2016, 11:00

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

Remove the game.

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Post Monday, 26th September 2016, 12:20

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

Remove remove

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Post Monday, 26th September 2016, 14:35

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

I find that having just a single Lair branch changed the metagame for me. Previously I was really afraid of banishment, now I almost don't care. It's almost impossible to avoid being banished by the time you enter late Dungeon, Vaults or Elf (and I got Shoals as my Lair branch) and also you basically need Abyssal rune to enter Zot anyway. Removing item generation in Abyss made me want to be banished as I don't want to enter Abyss voluntarily and spend consumables while looking for stairs to Abyss 3. Getting a trove which requires to show abyssal rune is just icing on the cake ;)

Edit. tl/dr Light armour nerf. Equip plate armour and ignore Ogre Mage, Orc Sorcerer, Deep elf Sorcerer etc, otherwise you will die to paralysis,
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Post Monday, 26th September 2016, 22:34

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

Maybe change ammo generation for javelins and tomahawks? I got only 220 javelins and 83 tomahawks after clearing Shoals, Orc, Dungeon, Elf and Vaults 1-3, that's a bit low IMHO provided I used just 3 javelins and 0 tomahawks so far.
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Post Monday, 26th September 2016, 22:48

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

Yeah, the ammo amounts seem ridiculous. I understand everything mulches now but damn. Maybe the numbers were too high in vanilla to begin with.

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Post Tuesday, 27th September 2016, 20:19

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

Remove all elemental schools and poison magic, and just have pure conjurations as offensive spells:

Level 1: Magic dart
Level 3: Magic shot
Level 5: Magic ball
Level 6: Magic bolt
Level 7: OOD
Level 9 Magic storm

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Post Tuesday, 27th September 2016, 20:22

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

lethediver wrote:Yeah, the ammo amounts seem ridiculous. I understand everything mulches now but damn. Maybe the numbers were too high in vanilla to begin with.


A stack of 45 curare is ridiculous indeed.
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
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Post Wednesday, 28th September 2016, 00:42

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

goodcoolguy wrote:It's not that it doesn't matter, it's that the choice is not complicated or interesting. In other words, between the cases where it's obvious what to cast/target and it doesn't matter what you cast within reason, you've got almost everything.


well basically here is my take
it doesn't matter if you play crawl or not
youre still going to die someday

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Post Wednesday, 28th September 2016, 04:56

Re: [proclick] new fork, hellcrawl

Every man dies. Not every man truly crawls.

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