Some unrandarts


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Post Wednesday, 31st August 2016, 20:31

Some unrandarts

These unrandarts can change your game in a significant way

1) +2 cursed robe of mummy

You cannot quaff potions, you cannot berserk, you don't need to eat (always satiated). Automatically curses itself on equip.

2) -2 ring mail of mana

You get XL/9 (rounded up) mana points for every monster killed.

3) -2 plate armour of death

You get temporary +1 slaying effect for every monster killed. Somewhat similar to Song of Slaying but does not generate any noise. +9 max, duration depends on your Armour skill.

4) +2 robe of life

You get XL/9 (rounded up) hit points for every monster killed

5) +0 ring mail of shield

You can wear buckler along with 2h weapon (including launchers)

6) -10 plate armour of lightness

Any unbranded weapon has temporary speed brand while wearing this armour (including launchers)
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Post Wednesday, 31st August 2016, 21:19

Re: Some unrandarts

VeryAngryFelid wrote:These unrandarts can change your game in a significant way

by getting you killed?

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Post Wednesday, 31st August 2016, 21:25

Re: Some unrandarts

It's not very gamechanging to leave a useless item where you found it imo.
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Post Wednesday, 31st August 2016, 22:01

Re: Some unrandarts

If you turn item 1 into the Robe of Undeath which has all effects of undeath, I'll be very interested. For the rest, I am not a fan of active unrandarts. The Robe of Life would probably play similarly to the Robe of Vines. A large armour like Lear's with plaques on it that give it a SH bonus is doable.
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Post Wednesday, 31st August 2016, 22:42

Re: Some unrandarts

Level 8 spell as an item would be OP.
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Post Wednesday, 31st August 2016, 22:56

Re: Some unrandarts

a spell being high level doesn't mean it's good

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Post Thursday, 1st September 2016, 00:19

Re: Some unrandarts

I could see temporary, stacking +slaying on enemy death possibly being the basis of a cool unrand, but not if it occurs on -2 plate armour. The rest, I just don't think are that exciting, quite apart from power level.

Re: robe of mummy, I liked archaeo's idea (iirc) of removing necromutation and making gourmand into "amulet of undeath."

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Post Thursday, 1st September 2016, 04:13

Re: Some unrandarts

VeryAngryFelid wrote:These unrandarts can change your game in a significant way


Ok, here is what I had in mind:
1) +2 cursed robe of mummy

You cannot quaff potions, you cannot berserk, you don't need to eat (always satiated). Automatically curses itself on equip.


1) Spam high level spells surprisingly early (Shatter as Gr, Tornado as HE etc.). You can do it after Lair with Sif Muna or Vehumet
2) Spam all those rods you found (Sp has great Evo aptitude but still cannot spam them, for example. Other species cannot evoke more than 3-4 rods before going to almost starving. Yes, I had 6+ rods on some characters)
3) Spam any spells you want as Sp, join Gozag as Troll, Fedhas as Sp, Zin as caster, spam those Bolts of Fire in Spider Nest.


2) -2 ring mail of mana

You get XL/9 (rounded up) mana points for every monster killed.


1) Now you can play pure caster. Even pure caster of Chei if you like. Put some points into Str as DEWz, train magic skills in unusual way (level 6 spells will need more XP due to amrour penalty and you are unlikely to get level 9 spells in 3 rune game even with Vehumet)
2) Or you can be a really great hybrid (especially with Makhleb), almost unstoppable.

3) -2 plate armour of death

You get temporary +1 slaying effect for every monster killed. Somewhat similar to Song of Slaying but does not generate any noise. +9 max, duration depends on your Armour skill.


Players often ignore defense (c.f. shield) for offense. This armour brings it to extreme level. Now you can play
1) Makhleb. You will kill everything really fast and you don't care about low defense because you heal on kills
2) Fun glass cannon characters with ranged attack. Similar to how some people play glass cannon pure casters.
3) In extended you may want to switch to that armour because you have more than enough AC and extra slaying is more useful than extra AC due to torment and damnation

4) +2 robe of life

You get XL/9 (rounded up) hit points for every monster killed


1) Oka, invoke Finesse and kill everything you see pretending you are Makhleb
2) Become EV-based character as Mi/Tr/Gh/HO/etc. Maybe you even will learn some spells :)
3) Qazlal, wield any axe and pretend it is vampiric one :) Or maybe even use a shield, you have clouds heal you by killing all those monsters in view.
4) Great hybrid. Similar to -2 ring mail of mana but now you can get level 9 spells with Vehumet in 3 rune game if you want.

5) +0 ring mail of shield

You can wear buckler along with 2h weapon (including launchers)


Maybe it should be changed to MDA, this seems to be most useful to Sp and Tr/Og (yes, Tr/Og can wear buckler (warlock's one would be awesome) with this and still use 2h Unarmed/GSC)
Also a nice reason to go with TSO or Qazlal who buff shield

6) -10 plate armour of lightness

Any unbranded weapon has temporary speed brand while wearing this armour (including launchers)


Who needs Trog/Oka after that? You can have great weapons all game, you even can be a character who uses melee and ranged all the time. Just select weapon category you have the best aptitudes in. Makhleb is obvious choice again.
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Post Thursday, 1st September 2016, 04:27

Re: Some unrandarts

VeryAngryFelid wrote:Ok, here is what I had in mind:
1) Spam high level spells surprisingly early (Shatter as Gr, Tornado as HE etc.). You can do it after Lair with Sif Muna or Vehumet
2) Spam all those rods you found (Sp has great Evo aptitude but still cannot spam them, for example. Other species cannot evoke more than 3-4 rods before going to almost starving. Yes, I had 6+ rods on some characters)
3) Spam any spells you want as Sp, join Gozag as Troll, Fedhas as Sp, Zin as caster, spam those Bolts of Fire in Spider Nest.

removefood.jpg

VeryAngryFelid wrote:1) Now you can play pure caster. Even pure caster of Chei if you like. Put some points into Str as DEWz, train magic skills in unusual way (level 6 spells will need more XP due to amrour penalty and you are unlikely to get level 9 spells in 3 rune game even with Vehumet)
2) Or you can be a really great hybrid (especially with Makhleb), almost unstoppable.

or you can play sif?

VeryAngryFelid wrote:Players often ignore defense (c.f. shield) for offense. This armour brings it to extreme level. Now you can play
1) Makhleb. You will kill everything really fast and you don't care about low defense because you heal on kills
2) Fun glass cannon characters with ranged attack. Similar to how some people play glass cannon pure casters.
3) In extended you may want to switch to that armour because you have more than enough AC and extra slaying is more useful than extra AC due to torment and damnation

the extreme level would be that other randart you proposed later with the speed brand, except make a robe

VeryAngryFelid wrote:1) Oka, invoke Finesse and kill everything you see pretending you are Makhleb
2) Become EV-based character as Mi/Tr/Gh/HO/etc. Maybe you even will learn some spells :)
3) Qazlal, wield any axe and pretend it is vampiric one :) Or maybe even use a shield, you have clouds heal you by killing all those monsters in view.
4) Great hybrid. Similar to -2 ring mail of mana but now you can get level 9 spells with Vehumet in 3 rune game if you want.

the robe of vines already exists

VeryAngryFelid wrote:Maybe it should be changed to MDA, this seems to be most useful to Sp and Tr/Og (yes, Tr/Og can wear buckler (warlock's one would be awesome) with this and still use 2h Unarmed/GSC)
Also a nice reason to go with TSO or Qazlal who buff shield

amulets of reflection exist...

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Post Thursday, 1st September 2016, 04:39

Re: Some unrandarts

CanOfWorms wrote:the robe of vines already exists


I am not sure why it is brought second time in this thread. Don't you see the difference? You don't need to pillar dance to get healed, you must swing with your axe for that.

amulets of reflection exist...


The item was inspired by my current character who found warlock's buckler as Tm with Blade Hands and Dragon Form. Of course Blade Hands does not meld shield when using the proposed armour...
Last edited by VeryAngryFelid on Thursday, 1st September 2016, 04:43, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Thursday, 1st September 2016, 04:42

Re: Some unrandarts

Here's how they actually stack up though:

Mummy robe: worse than +0 robe in most situations.

Ring mail of mana: worse than +0 ring mail.

Plate armor of death: worse than +0 plate.

Robe of life: Worse than robe of archmagi, magic resistance, or resistance.

Ring mail of shield: worse than ego ring mail.

Plate armor of lightness: worse than +0 robe.

AC is kind of important, so is drinking potions. Most of these are worse than starting body armor, none of them are likely to be worth considering even as early as lair. If their enchantment values were somewhat reasonable maybe they could be worth using some of the time but as proposed they're just really bad.

E: I think "song of slaying but on an armor" might have some decent design space, but it needs to be a better base armor than a -2 plate.
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Post Thursday, 1st September 2016, 04:44

Re: Some unrandarts

Ok, it looks like I am the only person who would use them :(
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Post Thursday, 1st September 2016, 04:44

Re: Some unrandarts

Some of these unrands feel like they take an existing mechanic and put it on an artefact, which is more interesting than unrands with no special effects, but less interesting than unique effects. I think that's why people don't really like these ideas. Also, the differences when they exist are generally slight. Robe of Vines keeps being brought up because its nearly identical. Not completely identical, but too close for another unrand in the same space.

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Post Thursday, 1st September 2016, 04:46

Re: Some unrandarts

I legit like the idea of unrand "song of slaying" way more than the spell, though. Just, not on -2 plate armor obviously.

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Post Thursday, 1st September 2016, 04:47

Re: Some unrandarts

I intentionally tried to avoid unique effects to save devs from doing difficult work...
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Post Thursday, 1st September 2016, 04:55

Re: Some unrandarts

tavern's really bad at MP management

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Post Thursday, 1st September 2016, 05:20

Re: Some unrandarts

VeryAngryFelid wrote:I intentionally tried to avoid unique effects to save devs from doing difficult work...

It's appreciated, but I think you erred too conservative here. Better to think big, at least at first - even if you're overambitious, maybe something interesting can be scavenged!

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Post Thursday, 1st September 2016, 05:30

Re: Some unrandarts

After thinking about it some, the song of slaying effect might be cool as a partial rework of Mask of the Dragon.
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Post Thursday, 1st September 2016, 05:32

Re: Some unrandarts

A singing sword rework! Use the same style buff system as powered by death (perhaps with a longer duration).

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Post Thursday, 1st September 2016, 07:33

Re: Some unrandarts

duvessa wrote:tavern's really bad at MP management


Could you elaborate a bit more that?
Because my MP management is blast everything you see, then tab everything you see, rinse and repeat until everything is dead.
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Post Thursday, 1st September 2016, 13:32

Re: Some unrandarts

nago wrote:
duvessa wrote:tavern's really bad at MP management


Could you elaborate a bit more that?
Because my MP management is blast everything you see, then tab everything you see, rinse and repeat until everything is dead.



This is example of bad MP management IMHO. It is better to have some MP remaining as hybrid. I guess duvessa's comment was targeted at me ;) But it is more fun to not pay attention to MP as hybrid, even if it can get you killed.
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Post Thursday, 1st September 2016, 14:21

Re: Some unrandarts

Well, here are more unrandarts then.

1) +9 longbow of double shot. You shoot arrow at a monster and another arrow is automatically shot in opposite direction. The automatic arrow always mulches. Great for fighting in corridors.
2) +8 longbow of point blank, velocity brand, *curse. You deal +50% damage when shooting at adjacent monsters, -50% damage when shooting at monsters 7 tiles away, damage linearly scales in between
3) +8 longbow of weirdness, velocity brand, *curse. The opposite of previous longbow, -50% damage when shooting at adjacent monsters, +50% damage when shooting at monsters 7 tiles away, damage linearly scales in between
4) longbow of sniper, velocity brand. Starts as +0 longbow, you get +1 enchantment for every shot unless you do any action other than shooting. Can be enchanted up to +20 this way.
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Post Thursday, 1st September 2016, 15:40

Re: Some unrandarts

VeryAngryFelid wrote:Level 8 spell as an item would be OP.

The op left out "gives you resistances like you were indead" so i presume you would still be subject to torment etc. Making this much worse than the already not very good spell.
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Post Thursday, 1st September 2016, 21:55

Re: Some unrandarts

The spell is not very good because it is level 8 and prevents casting Death's Door and Born which are castable by the same school (at least Born will be for sure). Make Necromutation level 4-5 and spectate everyone forget Statue Form exists
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Post Thursday, 1st September 2016, 21:56

Re: Some unrandarts

Statue form is much better than necromut IMO.

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Post Thursday, 1st September 2016, 22:02

Re: Some unrandarts

BabyRage wrote:Statue form is much better than necromut IMO.


How? Or are you talking about UC, Fe etc. and about monsters who have Dispel Undead? I am talking about "normal" characters who use weapon and have decent AC without transmutations, for them being permanently slowed is worse than everything Statue Form improves/provides.
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Post Thursday, 1st September 2016, 22:06

Re: Some unrandarts

Necromut = crutch. Statue form = useful spell which actually does something.

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Post Thursday, 1st September 2016, 22:09

Re: Some unrandarts

Have you tried Necromutation? Try some DE of Vehumet with Fire Storm and tell me that you still like Statue Form more (power-wise, not interface-wise).
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Post Thursday, 1st September 2016, 22:17

Re: Some unrandarts

VeryAngryFelid wrote:Have you tried Necromutation? Try some DE of Vehumet with Fire Storm and tell me that you still like Statue Form more (power-wise, not interface-wise).

I'm sorry, but this is nonsense. Power-wise statue form is a spell that alone wins you a game (if you are unarmed, especially Op/Fe). Necromut does not. It's merely a quality of life spell, which lets you ignore some minor game mechanics.

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Post Thursday, 1st September 2016, 23:01

Re: Some unrandarts

Necromutation is the best spell in the game because it removes things that shouldn't be in the game from the game.

Dying because you can't drink potions or use the actually broken level 8 necromancy spells is a small cost to pay in comparison.

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Post Friday, 2nd September 2016, 00:16

Re: Some unrandarts

BabyRage wrote:I'm sorry, but this is nonsense. Power-wise statue form is a spell that alone wins you a game (if you are unarmed, especially Op/Fe). Necromut does not. It's merely a quality of life spell, which lets you ignore some minor game mechanics.


Have you read my previous message? I specifically mentioned UC and Fe. Op can be played with Necromutation with some luck (recently I saw a thread with Op who had AC30+ EV30+ without forms). Most characters don't use UC and are not Fe/Op.
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Post Friday, 2nd September 2016, 03:38

Re: Some unrandarts

Croases wrote:Necromutation is the best spell in the game because it removes things that shouldn't be in the game from the game.
please explain why torment shouldn't be in the game

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Post Friday, 2nd September 2016, 04:05

Re: Some unrandarts

I think it is about hunger, not torment.
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Post Friday, 2nd September 2016, 08:34

Re: Some unrandarts

A fixedart longbow of chaos would be interesting, I think, if some more effects were added (random cloud generation in LOS, random summoning of hostile or allied creatures, some special Xom things like making walls transparent...)
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Post Friday, 2nd September 2016, 10:10

Re: Some unrandarts

Shard1697 wrote:please explain why torment shouldn't be in the game

Like two other things necromutation removes (malmutate and random paralysis off of 2% chance, which the extra MR from the spell mitigates), torment is a hackneyed means of punishing endgame characters that "misplay" or "fail to position" by missing an iron shot against an otherwise completely harmless monster.

Though I'd probably be okay with torment if tormentors were removed from the game.

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Post Friday, 2nd September 2016, 10:16

Re: Some unrandarts

I like tormentors! They are enemies potentially very dangerous if not handled well despite not having enormous hp poll, ac or resistances.

In before duvessa saying they are harmless.
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Post Friday, 2nd September 2016, 10:23

Re: Some unrandarts

torment is literally the best designed part of postend

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Post Friday, 2nd September 2016, 10:48

Re: Some unrandarts

I find torment kinda decent but honestly prefer hellfire because:
    it can kill the char, instead of bringing on the verge of death and requiring another kind of attack to actual kill him
    it is smite-targed (which I don't like much) but also not smite targeting, allowing some different sort of tactics to cope with it different from break los\kill asap
    it is actually unresistable without seeming unfair, even perhaps too excessively - it's amazing how many new player cry about torment|!!!\1 and necessity to have rf++++ but no one cares about hellfire
    there isn't a terrible lv 8 dual school spell which is only about giving immunity to it plus another resist that gives partial resist to it too because yes plus some gods plus items (including removed) plus some races including partial resistance because why not plus ds mutation plus I'm surely missing something

Oh just because I want to write it: the fucking nice thing about Tormentors\Hellfire is that they are potentially dangerous to your char right now and actually attack your HP bar.
For comparison, from Lair\post-Lair onwards every remotely dangerous enemy must be a buffer\debuffer and have some abstruse weird gimmick that gives three different status to you, the monsters and the dungeon to actually be remotely able to be a threat, while still being totally unable to attack your HP bar if tackled alone.
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Post Friday, 2nd September 2016, 11:14

Re: Some unrandarts

nago wrote:For comparison, from Lair\post-Lair onwards every remotely dangerous enemy must be a buffer\debuffer and have some abstruse weird gimmick that gives three different status to you, the monsters and the dungeon to actually be remotely able to be a threat, while still being totally unable to attack your HP bar if tackled alone.

Caustic shrikes are good, especially in packs.
...CeVM{MfWnMiAK}TeAMDrIE{FoVMVSFi}{MuVMGhGlVpMo}HaWrSpWz{OgGlTrMo}{CeWnMfBeMiSk}
DrEE{GrFiFoGl}DgEnFeNe{OpGlHuSu}DDArHaCKSpAEGrTmDgFEDsCjGhMoHuVM{HaAMBaEn}{HuMoHOWn}
DsWzDDHu{DgWnGnBe}FeIE{MiEnMfCj}SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}FeEE{HOIEMiAE}

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Post Friday, 2nd September 2016, 12:32

Re: Some unrandarts

Hellfire does not do much without Torment, that's why Gh is hilariously easy in extended with its +10% HP and complete immunity to Torment. Characters with Statue/Dragon Form don't care much about Hellfire either. But yes, Hellfire + Torment combo is really great. Brimstone fiends rule ;)
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Post Friday, 2nd September 2016, 14:37

Re: Some unrandarts

VeryAngryFelid wrote:Ok, it looks like I am the only person who would use them :(

Tavern dwellers tend to value +3AC much more than a unique game with strange items. Randarts are interesting, but sadly it won't be implemented.

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Abyss Ambulator

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Joined: Friday, 18th April 2014, 01:41

Post Friday, 2nd September 2016, 22:23

Re: Some unrandarts

I think all the randarts in the OP are too bad to be usable except maybe the ring mail of mana. The longbows are kind of neat though.
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Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4313

Joined: Wednesday, 23rd October 2013, 07:56

Post Friday, 2nd September 2016, 22:32

Re: Some unrandarts

Well, the robe of life is definitely usable. Of course, you rarely find an unrandart early in the game...
...CeVM{MfWnMiAK}TeAMDrIE{FoVMVSFi}{MuVMGhGlVpMo}HaWrSpWz{OgGlTrMo}{CeWnMfBeMiSk}
DrEE{GrFiFoGl}DgEnFeNe{OpGlHuSu}DDArHaCKSpAEGrTmDgFEDsCjGhMoHuVM{HaAMBaEn}{HuMoHOWn}
DsWzDDHu{DgWnGnBe}FeIE{MiEnMfCj}SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}FeEE{HOIEMiAE}

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