Tartarus Sorceror
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If it doesn't fit anywhere else, it belongs here. Also, come here if you just need to get hammered.
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Tartarus Sorceror
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Sandman25 wrote:Maybe I misunderstood your suggestion. Your idea is to have level 9 spell cost 0 MP with 27 spellcasting, right?
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dynast wrote:You will be able to spam A lvl 9 spell, yes.
dynast wrote:I dont think its overpowered
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Tartarus Sorceror
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Sandman25 wrote:dynast wrote:You will be able to spam A lvl 9 spell, yes.dynast wrote:I dont think its overpowered
Ok.
Skill XL: | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 |
Spellcasting | 7 8 10 11 12 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 23 | 23.3
Action | 1- 3 | 4- 6 | 7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 | 19-21 | 22-24 | 25-27 || total
Glaciate | | | | | | | 16 | 63 | 91 || 170
Fire Storm | | | | | | | | | 405 || 405
Ziggurat Zagger
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Tartarus Sorceror
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Sandman25 wrote:Of course you didn't reach 27 spellcasting, it wouldn't allow you to spam level 9 spells in that version so it had very low priority.
Sandman25 wrote:Also you don't need 27 spellcasting, level 9 spell costing 4 MP (spellcasting 15 is even a bit low for level 9 spell) is already OP.
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dynast wrote:Thats not me whos proposing that and im against that idea.
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dowan wrote:I like the general idea, but I'd tone it down and make it less linear. I'd also remove the specific spell part of it.
For example, spellcasting 4 makes all your spells cost 1 less MP. Spellcasting 10 makes them all 2 less. 18 costs 3 less, and at 27 all your spells cost 4 less MP.
The problem I see with it affecting specific currently memorized spells is that it means you'd want to have your 'end game' spell memorized before you trained spellcasting enough to start getting the discounts. Plus, being able to cast a level 9 (or even level 6) spell for free seems troublesome.
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amalloy wrote:dowan wrote:I like the general idea, but I'd tone it down and make it less linear. I'd also remove the specific spell part of it.
For example, spellcasting 4 makes all your spells cost 1 less MP. Spellcasting 10 makes them all 2 less. 18 costs 3 less, and at 27 all your spells cost 4 less MP.
The problem I see with it affecting specific currently memorized spells is that it means you'd want to have your 'end game' spell memorized before you trained spellcasting enough to start getting the discounts. Plus, being able to cast a level 9 (or even level 6) spell for free seems troublesome.
What about a simpler version of this? Instead of reducing MP cost of spells, training spellcasting could give you extra MP.
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Tartarus Sorceror
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Shard1697 wrote:Seems to me having 1 specific spell not cost any mana would do the exact opposite of increasing spell variety.
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genericpseudonym wrote:I'm already encouraged to do that except instead of casting the 0mp spell i'm casting the spell that tab is macroed to.
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Arrhythmia wrote:genericpseudonym wrote:I'm already encouraged to do that except instead of casting the 0mp spell i'm casting the spell that tab is macroed to.
Assuming for the moment that this is true, would making that spell cost 0mp make the situation better?
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Tartarus Sorceror
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PleasingFungus wrote:right now, you're encouraged to use different spells situationally depending on noise, enemy positioning, resistances, mp costs, whatever. if you had one spell that cost 0 mp, you would be very strongly encouraged to just cast that spell almost all the time, rather than bothering with any of the other ones you knew. that doesn't seem very fun, to me.
Ziggurat Zagger
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dynast wrote:"You need mp to cast spells, you canT wear heavy armor, you need int, you need to train spellcasting, you need to train a element, your spells can miscast, miscasts can kill you, dont risk casting dangerous spells, kite for mp, dont cast loud spells, stick to a main element or simply conjurations, butcher a thousand corpses."
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Siegurt wrote:how is any of that specifically special casing, what is the general case you are comparing it to?
Siegurt wrote:What is "gameable" in the context of what you said?
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dynast wrote:Wanna cast offensive spells? Vehumet is your god,
dynast wrote:Then later you are FORCED, not encouraged, forced to learn sublimation of blood, regardless of god choice,
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dynast wrote:Siegurt wrote:how is any of that specifically special casing, what is the general case you are comparing it to?
You get spell fail rate for wearing armor thats too heavy or for wearing armor without training, which makes no sense since melee can wear armor without training or strength while having little to no effect on his attacks. Instead of having a game where armor is worthless without training, the game wants to have this cute "mages are squishy" case, making spells more complicated for no reason. Same deal with shields. Have you never been on the position where you had to try different type to armors, then adjust your stats(through rings or other armors), dedice whether to train more armor/sh/splcst/whatever JUST because of how everything affects spell's fail rate? We all have been there.Siegurt wrote:What is "gameable" in the context of what you said?
Then there is caster's playstyle and how narrow of a path they drag you into. Wanna cast offensive spells? Vehumet is your god, really, want offensive spells? you are going Veh(and dont toss me your optimal ******** here please, we are not talking about optimal or what the game encourages or not, this is the player's choice). Then there is the "but mom, i dont wanna train melee", then just kite son. Cant kite? Learn some silly spell that allows you to(blink, cloud spells). Then later you are FORCED, not encouraged, forced to learn sublimation of blood, regardless of god choice, because it is so powerful, and with great powers comes the regeneration spell, now you got yourself two spells to constantly cast that have little to no tactical imput(which is what we all love). There is also the element choice, with conjuration being the only bridge to different elements but some might argue that training only one element is a bad idea or that translocations are worth any investment more than 5 levels, etc.
I thought spells were supposed to be interesting due to their effects, instead it appears that what makes them interesting is the exercise you have to put to be able to cast them, or simply not be able to cast them at all.
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Shard1697 wrote:No, not really. I pretty much never go veh on blasty casters. I go Dith or Sif most of the time.
Shard1697 wrote:This is probably an oversight due to forgetting the spell exists, but I have actually never learned sublimation of blood on any of my winning caster characters either. In fact, I think I haven't learned it since way back when you could use it by wielding chunks... I've still won casters, still beaten multiple zigs on runs with blasty casters. Hardly seems like I'm being forced to do anything WRT sublimation!
Siegurt wrote:You appear trapped in a paradigm of your own making, there are lots of gods that support using conjurations as your primary offence, as well as if not better than Veh. You are not forced to memorize sub blood, it is pretty useful, but even if you have decided that some form of mana reclamation is needed (it isnt) sub blood isnt the only way to go about it.
Siegurt wrote:As for melee being able to use heavy armour with less restictions than spellcasting, why is spell casting in that scenario the "special" case, isn't it just as viable to say that melee is the special cased *exception* to the rule? It is certainly true that it is a bonus that melee has over conjuration, but that doesn't make it a special exception, it is just different.
Siegurt wrote:I am not sure you can reasonably claim that attack spells are more difficult to use "for no reason" they have both a greater range and a greater area of effect than melee, as well as giving you a host of non damaging abilities that come along with that training that aren't available to non spell users. Obviously there has to be some kind of tradeoff for the additional power and flexibility, maybe it isn't worth the exchange as is, but to imply that you should not have to give up anything is disingenuous.
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dynast wrote:You are talking from your own personal choice, i am talking from the perspective of someone who will do what it takes to cast spells whenever he can, this includes trying to have access to said spells, if you dont fit that description that just means you havent reach that point yet, or never will.
dynast wrote:Also, you dont even have any online record of a Dith caster win and only 2 Sif wins(as far as searching for your name).
dynast wrote:You mean those zigs you entered after 90k turn mark where a 15 rune game would already be over by then? Nice job.
dynast wrote:You seem to be trapped in a paradigm of your own ignorance if you think that conjuration gifting god with wizard/range bonus and mp on kills is not the best choice for someone who wants to cast spells. You also totally ignored when i said to not toss your optimal bullshit in here, we are not talking about optimal.
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