Elitism in Crawl community


If it doesn't fit anywhere else, it belongs here. Also, come here if you just need to get hammered.

User avatar

Vaults Vanquisher

Posts: 510

Joined: Friday, 1st July 2016, 22:32

Location: Aachen, Germany

Post Sunday, 14th August 2016, 21:04

Elitism in Crawl community

Is this a thing? I feel like the Tavern really lacks some good old elitism and e-peen measurement.

Crypt Cleanser

Posts: 689

Joined: Saturday, 12th December 2015, 23:54

Post Sunday, 14th August 2016, 21:16

Re: Elitism in Crawl community

No, everybody in this community is 100% humble and very considerate toward inferior casual players.

For this message the author Hellmonk has received thanks: 17
Arrhythmia, Brannock, dowan, dynast, Floodkiller, Hirsch I, Rast, Sar, Shard1697, WingedEspeon and 7 more users

Blades Runner

Posts: 552

Joined: Tuesday, 10th April 2012, 21:11

Post Sunday, 14th August 2016, 21:28

Re: Elitism in Crawl community

My e-peen is so big it cannot be measured unfortunately.

For this message the author moocowmoocow has received thanks:
vergil

Crypt Cleanser

Posts: 714

Joined: Saturday, 5th December 2015, 06:56

Post Monday, 15th August 2016, 15:57

Re: Elitism in Crawl community

Nah, it just depends where u look.

There's two types of elitism here. One type involves spamming counterintuitive opinions (ex: "swiftness is a much, much better spell than glaciate"). A newbie to the tavern will not immediately recognize the poster's hidden message, that early game matters much more than late game. Ofc the spammer never explicitly states that message either, because his purpose is to make you feel inferior.

Another type is the obvious, ugly kind which comes out in big controversial threads about game design. People will suddenly start bringing up their, or other's win rates, because they actually care about what the devs do with the thread.

Oh, speaking of the devs - also, certain devs are elitist, albeit in a less explicit way. Usually comes out when you disagree with them on something, they will tell you to go make your own branch (because this one belongs to them and not you, obviously).

I'll take all your downvotes now

For this message the author lethediver has received thanks:
ZoFy

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 2996

Joined: Tuesday, 28th June 2011, 20:41

Location: Berlin

Post Monday, 15th August 2016, 16:03

Re: Elitism in Crawl community

One type involves spamming counterintuitive opinions (ex: "swiftness is a much, much better spell than glaciate"). A newbie to the tavern will not immediately recognize the poster's hidden message, that early game matters much more than late game.


implying glaciate is better than swiftness in the late game

For this message the author cerebovssquire has received thanks: 4
BabyRage, duvessa, nago, ydeve
User avatar

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1891

Joined: Monday, 1st April 2013, 04:41

Location: Toronto, Canada

Post Monday, 15th August 2016, 16:05

Re: Elitism in Crawl community

lethediver wrote:because his purpose is to make you feel inferior.


Where does this thought even come from? You're not the first person I've seen who's suggested that minmay/crate/tabstorm/people who post like them are trying to make you feel inferior.
take it easy

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8786

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Monday, 15th August 2016, 16:06

Re: Elitism in Crawl community

lethediver wrote:I'll take all your downvotes now
I'll get le downboated for this, but here's my unpopular opinion: feminism is evil and TIL black lives matter is a hate group.

Edit: Wow, my first gold!

For this message the author duvessa has received thanks: 4
Arrhythmia, cerebovssquire, genericpseudonym, PleasingFungus

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 6454

Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06

Post Monday, 15th August 2016, 16:43

Re: Elitism in Crawl community

Arrhythmia wrote:
lethediver wrote:because his purpose is to make you feel inferior.


Where does this thought even come from? You're not the first person I've seen who's suggested that minmay/crate/tabstorm/people who post like them are trying to make you feel inferior.

There are at least three (probably more) possibilities for the motivation of those types of posts:

1. The ascribed motive "i am obviously right, if you don't intuitively understand why i am right then clearly you are inferior to me" (arrogance/hubris)

2. "My fundamental premise is so obvious that i can't envision or comprehend anyone who could not immediately and intuitively understand it, because everyone thinks like i do." (narcissism/lack of empathy)

3. "I don't feel like taking the time to bother to explain my reasoning yet again, it is just too much work, and the stream of people who don't understand is never ending, besides *someone* will take the time to do it, so why should i?" (laziness)

Of course if the motive is the third option, the question could be asked as to why they bother to post at all, as when looking down the list of laziest options, doing nothing at all is clearly the winner. It might be a sense of obligation "i just cant let people go on completely uninformed" or a desire to participate "i just want people to know that i am here" or a desire to argue "someone is wrong on the internet and i wont have it!" Or just a cry for attention "ask me to clarify so i know you are paying attention to me!" Or any number of other options.

However, it is fairly normal to *feel* like you are being made to feel inferior, particularly when you are trying something new and are uncertain how to do it, whether someone else takes the time to explain or not. It is easier to avoid those feelings if there is a perception that the person giving you advice is doing so with patience and understanding, something that it is very difficult to convey when you want to speak tersely.

I, personally, try to interpret as generously as i can manage, and communicate with patience and understanding, and am far from perfect, and don't expect anyone else to be either.
Spoiler: show
This high quality signature has been hidden for your protection. To unlock it's secret, send 3 easy payments of $9.99 to me, by way of your nearest theta band or ley line. Complete your transmission by midnight tonight for a special free gift!

For this message the author Siegurt has received thanks: 5
bananaken, chequers, DracheReborn, Shard1697, wheals

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1694

Joined: Tuesday, 31st March 2015, 20:34

Post Monday, 15th August 2016, 17:14

Re: Elitism in Crawl community

Maybe you'd know about what goes on in the crawl community if you were actually in the crawl community. I've probably said too much already. :P

For this message the author dowan has received thanks:
Sar

Crypt Cleanser

Posts: 714

Joined: Saturday, 5th December 2015, 06:56

Post Monday, 15th August 2016, 17:26

Re: Elitism in Crawl community

dowan wrote:Maybe you'd know about what goes on in the crawl community if you were actually in the crawl community. I've probably said too much already. :P


Proving my point.....
User avatar

Blades Runner

Posts: 546

Joined: Friday, 2nd October 2015, 14:42

Post Monday, 15th August 2016, 17:35

Re: Elitism in Crawl community

lethediver wrote:People will suddenly start bringing up their, or other's win rates, because they actually care about what the devs do with the thread.


Very few GDD discussions result in more than a sidebar in some devteam irc log or email somewhere. As soon as something is controversial enough that people who know what they're talking about are going back and forth about it, the odds of anything coming of the discussion have already converged on zero. GDD threads that go somewhere look like:

Guy: Hey, I have a good, simple idea that doesn't run afoul of any controversial issues.

Everyone: Oh yeah, that is good, good thinking, guy. [nb: this part doesn't actually matter]

Dev: *links to commit*
The Original Discourse Respecter

For this message the author goodcoolguy has received thanks: 4
Brannock, duvessa, PleasingFungus, ydeve

Crypt Cleanser

Posts: 714

Joined: Saturday, 5th December 2015, 06:56

Post Monday, 15th August 2016, 17:58

Re: Elitism in Crawl community

goodcoolguy wrote:
lethediver wrote:People will suddenly start bringing up their, or other's win rates, because they actually care about what the devs do with the thread.


Very few GDD discussions result in more than a sidebar in some devteam irc log or email somewhere.


Doesnt matter. Human beings are optimists; they operate under the assumption they'll be one of those very few or that they can change the hearts and minds of people who will be able to make an impact even if you say they can't.

You cant really just... disclaimer away the nature of game design discussion, it works pretty much the same for any game no matter how the devs and mods try to constrain it. People will always make big sweeping controversial proposals and argue with each other. Human nature is what it is.

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1694

Joined: Tuesday, 31st March 2015, 20:34

Post Monday, 15th August 2016, 19:26

Re: Elitism in Crawl community

lethediver wrote:
dowan wrote:Maybe you'd know about what goes on in the crawl community if you were actually in the crawl community. I've probably said too much already. :P


Proving my point.....

I... thought the joke was obvious... Hmm, maybe I really did prove your point! Although explaining the joke would have ruined it, so it wasn't out of sheer laziness. Maybe number 2, I did assume people would get the joke if I went completely overboard with it and stuck a tongue sticking out smiley at the end. Does that make me a narcissist?

I don't think I lack empathy, but then, I have no way of knowing how other people feel about it...

Spoiler: show
(ba-dum tish) ((That was a rim shot)) (((It's a common joke that after a bad joke someone will do a rim shot on the drums, signaling that it was in fact supposed to be a joke))) ((((You see, your number 2 had "lack of empathy" so I thought my statement was a humorous demonstration of someone lacking empathy))))


Spoiler: show
Get it?

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1667

Joined: Saturday, 11th October 2014, 06:12

Location: Brazil. RS, Santa Cruz do Sul.

Post Monday, 15th August 2016, 20:21

Re: Elitism in Crawl community

None of that applies to CYC.
You shall never see my color again.
User avatar

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1698

Joined: Saturday, 18th June 2016, 13:57

Post Monday, 15th August 2016, 20:48

Re: Elitism in Crawl community

There's no elitism here, just attempts at snottiness :P I could see elitism if there really were an inner circle, but the most I think I've seen is someone occasionally being condescending, without anyone actually acknowledging that he was entitled to it. So, no elitism, as it requires a group recognizing itself and each other as elite.

I actually am surprised that this thread got serious.

Also, they won't let me downvote people here, or I'm just too dumb to find the button.

I also just noticed that the golden apple on the Discord spell icon has a K engraved into it, as the original apple of discord had the Greek word ΚΑΛΛΙΣΤΗI engraved. It meant "to the most beautiful" and caused an altercation between three goddesses which ultimately resulted into a beauty pageant contest, the first recorded instance of judge corruption in the Western world, and the then-year-long siege of Troy. Just thought I would share.
I Feel the Need--the Need for Beer
Spoiler: show
3DSBeTr 15DSFiRu 3DSMoNe 3FoHuGo 3TrArOk 3HOFEVe 3MfGlOk 4GrEEVe 3BaIEChei 3HuMoOka 3MiWnQaz 3VSFiAsh 3DrTmMakh 3DSCKXom 3OgMoOka 3NaFiOka 3FoFiOka 3MuFEVeh 3CeHuOka 3TrMoTSO 3DEFESif 3DSMoOka 3DSFiOka

For this message the author Shtopit has received thanks: 3
BabyRage, Brannock, Sar

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 169

Joined: Tuesday, 25th October 2011, 00:06

Post Wednesday, 17th August 2016, 09:51

Re: Elitism in Crawl community

Worship Me, puny mortals!
If you spot a grammar mistake in my post I will appreciate if you PM it.
User avatar

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1698

Joined: Saturday, 18th June 2016, 13:57

Post Wednesday, 17th August 2016, 10:24

Re: Elitism in Crawl community

Yermak wrote:Worship Me, puny mortals!


Less personality worship, more personal whore ships!
I Feel the Need--the Need for Beer
Spoiler: show
3DSBeTr 15DSFiRu 3DSMoNe 3FoHuGo 3TrArOk 3HOFEVe 3MfGlOk 4GrEEVe 3BaIEChei 3HuMoOka 3MiWnQaz 3VSFiAsh 3DrTmMakh 3DSCKXom 3OgMoOka 3NaFiOka 3FoFiOka 3MuFEVeh 3CeHuOka 3TrMoTSO 3DEFESif 3DSMoOka 3DSFiOka

For this message the author Shtopit has received thanks:
vergil
User avatar

Vaults Vanquisher

Posts: 510

Joined: Friday, 1st July 2016, 22:32

Location: Aachen, Germany

Post Wednesday, 17th August 2016, 10:31

Re: Elitism in Crawl community

Grabs popcorn

Sar

User avatar

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 6418

Joined: Friday, 6th July 2012, 12:48

Post Wednesday, 17th August 2016, 10:43

Re: Elitism in Crawl community

Siegurt wrote:There are at least three (probably more) possibilities for the motivation of those types of posts:

You forgot one:

4. Easy minmay thanks.

For this message the author Sar has received thanks: 4
Arrhythmia, nago, vergil, ydeve

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 6454

Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06

Post Wednesday, 17th August 2016, 14:48

Re: Elitism in Crawl community

dowan wrote:Does that make me a narcissist?

I don't think I lack empathy, but then, I have no way of knowing how other people feel about it...



Narcissicim or lack of empathy in this case would be insisting that the person who didn't get your joke was not in fact genuine, and that they did get your joke and were trying to manipulate the conversation in some other fashion by pretending not to get it.

Acknowledging that it might not have been gotten (even while joking about it) is actually *expressing* empathy. :)
Spoiler: show
This high quality signature has been hidden for your protection. To unlock it's secret, send 3 easy payments of $9.99 to me, by way of your nearest theta band or ley line. Complete your transmission by midnight tonight for a special free gift!

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1694

Joined: Tuesday, 31st March 2015, 20:34

Post Wednesday, 17th August 2016, 15:33

Re: Elitism in Crawl community

Siegurt wrote:
dowan wrote:Does that make me a narcissist?

I don't think I lack empathy, but then, I have no way of knowing how other people feel about it...



Narcissicim or lack of empathy in this case would be insisting that the person who didn't get your joke was not in fact genuine, and that they did get your joke and were trying to manipulate the conversation in some other fashion by pretending not to get it.

Acknowledging that it might not have been gotten (even while joking about it) is actually *expressing* empathy. :)


Damn it... you're right. Oh well, I obviously need to play more crawl, I'm apparently not a sociopath... yet.

Tomb Titivator

Posts: 853

Joined: Thursday, 29th August 2013, 18:39

Post Wednesday, 17th August 2016, 21:31

Re: Elitism in Crawl community

Terse posts like "gargoyles are weaker than demigods" or whatever strike me as opportunities to derive the reasoning on my own. Sure, I could have it explained to me, but it's a much richer, more fulfilling experience if I embark on the rollercoaster of abstract learning myself and soon I will be a crawl wunderkind like my estranged father, crate.

For this message the author johlstei has received thanks: 2
Arrhythmia, Shard1697

Dungeon Master

Posts: 585

Joined: Sunday, 9th June 2013, 17:13

Post Wednesday, 17th August 2016, 21:42

Re: Elitism in Crawl community

Hey to all the cool tavern posters: remember that time a guy on tavern complained about groups of random people raiding his WebTiles games for no reason? Then we all posted like we were raiding his tavern thread the same way. Even NOPE showed up and said "NOPE". That was the best.

For this message the author gammafunk has received thanks: 3
Arrhythmia, Cheibrodos, vergil
User avatar

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1891

Joined: Monday, 1st April 2013, 04:41

Location: Toronto, Canada

Post Wednesday, 17th August 2016, 23:34

Re: Elitism in Crawl community

gammafunk wrote:Hey to all the cool tavern posters: remember that time a guy on tavern complained about groups of random people raiding his WebTiles games for no reason? Then we all posted like we were raiding his tavern thread the same way. Even NOPE showed up and said "NOPE". That was the best.


I think those were my first posts on the tavern! Good times.
take it easy

For this message the author Arrhythmia has received thanks:
Cheibrodos
User avatar

Spider Stomper

Posts: 216

Joined: Monday, 1st April 2013, 04:41

Location: TX

Post Thursday, 18th August 2016, 03:03

Re: Elitism in Crawl community

I miss tileschat sometimes.
take it easy

For this message the author Cheibrodos has received thanks:
Arrhythmia
User avatar

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1891

Joined: Monday, 1st April 2013, 04:41

Location: Toronto, Canada

Post Thursday, 18th August 2016, 03:10

Re: Elitism in Crawl community

Cheibrodos wrote:I miss tileschat sometimes.


Any former tileschatters equally melancholic about those halcyon days: PM me and i'll be your facebook friend.
take it easy

Dungeon Master

Posts: 585

Joined: Sunday, 9th June 2013, 17:13

Post Thursday, 18th August 2016, 03:34

Re: Elitism in Crawl community

Fools who quit tileschat forever no idea how many jacquesderrida memes they're missing out on.

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1694

Joined: Tuesday, 31st March 2015, 20:34

Post Thursday, 18th August 2016, 14:19

Re: Elitism in Crawl community

johlstei wrote:Terse posts like "gargoyles are weaker than demigods" or whatever strike me as opportunities to derive the reasoning on my own. Sure, I could have it explained to me, but it's a much richer, more fulfilling experience if I embark on the rollercoaster of abstract learning myself and soon I will be a crawl wunderkind like my estranged father, crate.


Good point.
Fedhas is a far worse god than chei, and mummies are much better than every other species.

Enjoy your rollercoaster of learning. You're welcome.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 11111

Joined: Friday, 8th February 2013, 12:00

Post Thursday, 18th August 2016, 14:22

Re: Elitism in Crawl community

dowan wrote:Good point.
Fedhas is a far worse god than chei, and mummies are much better than every other species.

Enjoy your rollercoaster of learning. You're welcome.


It reminds me how we learn in school etc. from teachers. If people would learn everything on their own, we were still living in caves.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 11111

Joined: Friday, 8th February 2013, 12:00

Post Thursday, 18th August 2016, 14:25

Re: Elitism in Crawl community

dowan wrote:Fedhas is a far worse god than chei, and mummies are much better than every other species


That's easy. If we have proved that mummies are the best species, then obviously Fedhas is worse than Chei because Fedhas does not accept mummies. And mummies are the best species because you will have more fun due to avoiding inventory problems (no food, no potions!), avoiding corpse butchering, having easier ID mini-game and spamming high level spells.

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1694

Joined: Tuesday, 31st March 2015, 20:34

Post Thursday, 18th August 2016, 14:52

Re: Elitism in Crawl community

Solid logic all around, I'm sold! Mu of Chei is the new MiBe! :P

For this message the author dowan has received thanks:
vergil

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 11111

Joined: Friday, 8th February 2013, 12:00

Post Thursday, 18th August 2016, 14:58

Re: Elitism in Crawl community

I was talking about having fun, not power level. But yes, I don't have "MiBe" account but I do have "CheiMu" ;)

For this message the author Sandman25 has received thanks:
dowan

Slime Squisher

Posts: 395

Joined: Monday, 28th April 2014, 19:50

Post Thursday, 18th August 2016, 20:02

Re: Elitism in Crawl community

dowan wrote:
johlstei wrote:Terse posts like "gargoyles are weaker than demigods" or whatever strike me as opportunities to derive the reasoning on my own. Sure, I could have it explained to me, but it's a much richer, more fulfilling experience if I embark on the rollercoaster of abstract learning myself and soon I will be a crawl wunderkind like my estranged father, crate.


Good point.
Fedhas is a far worse god than chei, and mummies are much better than every other species.

Enjoy your rollercoaster of learning. You're welcome.


Fedhas requires you to spend food on abilities while Chei slows your digestion.
Mummies sustain themselves from the energy of their bandages or something instead of food.
This is also why Deep Elves are the second strongest species, because their apts let them rush 27 spellcasting as soon as possible to reduce the hunger costs of their spells.

For this message the author genericpseudonym has received thanks: 2
dowan, vergil

Return to Crazy Yiuf's Corner

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests

cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by ST Software for PTF.