Theoretical Unavoidable Death?


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Post Wednesday, 20th July 2016, 17:54

Theoretical Unavoidable Death?

What if you were playing a low hp race in gehenna, when hell effects summon 5 brimstone fiends and berserks you, and then they all hellfire you and you die?
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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Wednesday, 20th July 2016, 18:01

Re: Theoretical Unavoidable Death?

Hell effects do one thing at a time. You would have had a chance to read tele or blink beforehand, and also chances are you'd kill them while berserked before they killed you)

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Post Wednesday, 20th July 2016, 18:04

Re: Theoretical Unavoidable Death?

What if one of them spawned on top of a zot trap and paralyzed you? Also, hellfire can do up to 60 damage, so even a berserked character can easily die to it if the brimstone fiends roll high.

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Post Wednesday, 20th July 2016, 18:07

Re: Theoretical Unavoidable Death?

It's a lot easier to construct a scenario in the early game.
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Swamp Slogger

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Post Wednesday, 20th July 2016, 18:09

Re: Theoretical Unavoidable Death?

Magipi wrote:It's a lot easier to construct a scenario in the early game.

a kobold. wielding a dagger of electricution. he zaps a wand. its paralasys. he melees you. you die
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Post Wednesday, 20th July 2016, 18:11

Re: Theoretical Unavoidable Death?

Dungeoneer wrote:
Magipi wrote:It's a lot easier to construct a scenario in the early game.

a kobold. wielding a dagger of electricution. he zaps a wand. its paralasys. he melees you. you die

Even a kobold with a nonbranded dagger and no wand can kill a low-hp character on a bad day.

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BabyRage

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Post Wednesday, 20th July 2016, 18:22

Re: Theoretical Unavoidable Death?

But if you die in the early game, you do not lose a lot of progress/are not as invested in the character. Also, I thought of another unavoidable death: you are naga of chei. You take one step forwards, and 8 hellfireing monsters appear and instakill you.

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Post Wednesday, 20th July 2016, 18:32

Re: Theoretical Unavoidable Death?

Some might claim the best way to avoid that death would be to not worship chei...

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Post Wednesday, 20th July 2016, 18:36

Re: Theoretical Unavoidable Death?

dowan wrote:Some might claim the best way to avoid that death would be to not worship chei...

chei can be great. most of the time is too. you just need a bit of invo
Formicid Lyfe

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Post Wednesday, 20th July 2016, 18:40

Re: Theoretical Unavoidable Death?

Sure, I'm not trying to say chei is all bad, just that if you die due to moving at cheispeed it's hard to call it unavoidable, unless you're considering god choice to be like race/background choice, as in it's part of the scenario, not an element chosen by the player in the game. However, since you do actually pick your god within the game itself, it is quite a bit different from race/background.
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Post Wednesday, 20th July 2016, 18:54

Re: Theoretical Unavoidable Death?

I'm not sure if this is still possible but the D:1 map generated in a way so that the dungeon entrance was in a small quadratic chamber with the only a 1-tile broad corridor leading out. A gnoll with a halberd was already inside the corridor.
Took one step, gnoll comes into view, notices me, literally no way to survive other than to leave the dungeon.
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Post Wednesday, 20th July 2016, 19:18

Re: Theoretical Unavoidable Death?

removeelyvilon wrote:I'm not sure if this is still possible but the D:1 map generated in a way so that the dungeon entrance was in a small quadratic chamber with the only a 1-tile broad corridor leading out. A gnoll with a halberd was already inside the corridor.
Took one step, gnoll comes into view, notices me, literally no way to survive other than to leave the dungeon.

be a berserker, berserk?
Formicid Lyfe

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Post Wednesday, 20th July 2016, 19:32

Re: Theoretical Unavoidable Death?

During the orb run a Pan lord hits you with af chaos and you get paralyzed. Add anything else that spawns during the orb run to this mix and you got yourself a unavoidable death.
orbrun.jpg
orbrun.jpg (62.75 KiB) Viewed 3963 times
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Post Wednesday, 20th July 2016, 19:34

Re: Theoretical Unavoidable Death?

1. Opened the door near the exit
2. No walls. Took some steps
3. A goblin hits me with poisoned tomahawks. Haven't even seen an unknown potion
4. Death

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Post Wednesday, 20th July 2016, 19:38

Re: Theoretical Unavoidable Death?

dynast wrote:During the orb run a Pan lord hits you with af chaos and you get paralyzed. Add anything else that spawns during the orb run to this mix and you got yourself a unavoidable death.
orbrun.jpg


Everybody knows it's optimal to teleport when a ranPanlord get in melee range in case of af_chaos paralyze.

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Post Wednesday, 20th July 2016, 19:46

Re: Theoretical Unavoidable Death?

Optimal =/= guaranteed.
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Post Wednesday, 20th July 2016, 20:14

Re: Theoretical Unavoidable Death?

arandomperson12 wrote:What if one of them spawned on top of a zot trap and paralyzed you?


Monsters don't trigger traps when generated on top of one.

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Post Wednesday, 20th July 2016, 20:15

Re: Theoretical Unavoidable Death?

Howabout "randlord summons eyeballs, a shining eye gives you blurry vision 3, randlord blinks into range and chaos-melees you before you finish reading your own ?blink"

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Post Wednesday, 20th July 2016, 20:27

Re: Theoretical Unavoidable Death?

Well if we don't care how outrageously unlikely these situations are, how about a 50AC/50EV character with 400 HP, who runs into a giant gecko, but keeps getting bad to-hit rolls, missing every attack, gets bad ac rolls, taking full damage from each attack, and the gecko keeps getting good to-hit and damage rolls, as well as getting extra attacks from energy randomization? Plus every teleport lands directly next to the monster, and no cblink scrolls generated all game.

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Post Wednesday, 20th July 2016, 21:08

Re: Theoretical Unavoidable Death?

D1 adders can quite easily lead to unavoidable death. Nothing theoretical about it.

Simple, people. Keep it simple.

arandomperson12 wrote:But if you die in the early game, you do not lose a lot of progress/are not as invested in the character.


Yes, but the later you go in the game, the chances of a truly unavoidable death decline pretty quickly.

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Arrhythmia, nago

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Post Wednesday, 20th July 2016, 21:22

Re: Theoretical Unavoidable Death?

Yeah i totally scummed/photoshoped those pan lords into existance.
http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/ ... 185955.txt
  Code:
 59434 | Depths:5 | Noticed Gikhli Goraa the pandemonium lord
 59454 | Depths:5 | Noticed Tiz Losy the pandemonium lord
 59458 | Depths:5 | Noticed Zacruisu the pandemonium lord
 59478 | Depths:5 | Killed Gikhli Goraa the pandemonium lord
 59484 | Depths:5 | Killed Zacruisu the pandemonium lord
 59486 | Depths:5 | Noticed Cahethan the pandemonium lord
 59487 | Depths:5 | Gained mutation: Armour fits poorly on your strangely shaped body. [a neqoxec]
 59489 | Depths:5 | Killed Tiz Losy the pandemonium lord
 59494 | Depths:5 | Killed Cahethan the pandemonium lord
 59496 | Depths:5 | Noticed Astronk the pandemonium lord

5 pan lords in less than 100 turns. Everything is possible, my friend.
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Sar

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 20th July 2016, 21:28

Re: Theoretical Unavoidable Death?

dowan wrote:getting extra attacks from energy randomization

energy randomization can give a monster double move, or move-attack, but it can't give it double attack

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Post Wednesday, 20th July 2016, 21:42

Re: Theoretical Unavoidable Death?

and into wrote:D1 adders can quite easily lead to unavoidable death. Nothing theoretical about it.
no it can't, D:1 adder doesn't generate before turn 701, at which point there is way too much entropy to say it is unavoidable
D:1 giant gecko produces plenty of unavoidable deaths though

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Post Wednesday, 20th July 2016, 22:19

Re: Theoretical Unavoidable Death?

Really? I thought they were allowed spawn since turn 1
Did gnoll with net spawn since turn 1 in older version? They were nasty (as well as Ko with exploding darts and so)
screw it I hate this character I'm gonna go melee Gastronok
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Post Wednesday, 20th July 2016, 22:23

Re: Theoretical Unavoidable Death?

It's been a while since this could have happened but

"Turn corner to get banished and then get abyss ported into lava without tile to escape to/in a game where rF+ hasn't spawned yet"

would count.
take it easy

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Post Wednesday, 20th July 2016, 22:25

Re: Theoretical Unavoidable Death?

What's the matter with unavoidable deaths? They don't exist in theory only, they actually occur in practice, too. That's not a problem, as long as they come up rarely enough. We even have a paragraph in the philosophy section on the issue.

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Post Wednesday, 20th July 2016, 22:36

Re: Theoretical Unavoidable Death?

Gnoll has been a possible spawn at the beginning of the game since forever. The current list is giant newt, giant cockroach, ball python, ooze, goblin, bat, kobold, rat, hobgoblin, dart slug, giant gecko, jackal, gnoll.
Arrhythmia wrote:It's been a while since this could have happened but

"Turn corner to get banished and then get abyss ported into lava without tile to escape to/in a game where rF+ hasn't spawned yet"

would count.
I can do you one better: http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/0.10/tvsian/morgue-tvsian-20120603-204955.txt

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Post Wednesday, 20th July 2016, 22:48

Re: Theoretical Unavoidable Death?

duvessa wrote:Gnoll has been a possible spawn at the beginning of the game since forever. The current list is giant newt, giant cockroach, ball python, ooze, goblin, bat, kobold, rat, hobgoblin, dart slug, giant gecko, jackal, gnoll.
Arrhythmia wrote:It's been a while since this could have happened but

"Turn corner to get banished and then get abyss ported into lava without tile to escape to/in a game where rF+ hasn't spawned yet"

would count.
I can do you one better: http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/0.10/tvsian/morgue-tvsian-20120603-204955.txt


He spawned in lava? This is hilarious!
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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Wednesday, 20th July 2016, 23:21

Re: Theoretical Unavoidable Death?

There is Hellion Island in Gehenna. That must be a vault. A little island, let's say, 7-8 tiles, choke full of trigger-happy hellions. I think I found it as a fighter, but if you approach it from the wrong side with a squishy PC you can get 4 Damnations in a single shot. 3d15*4 = 12d15 with a medium result of 96. If you are unlucky, you could get 180, but even 130 would hurt a lot.
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Post Thursday, 21st July 2016, 00:21

Re: Theoretical Unavoidable Death?

Back in the day I climbed down a staircase to D:3 at full health and got instantly killed by an exploding spore. Praise be to the dev that removed ballistomycetes.
take it easy

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Post Thursday, 21st July 2016, 01:12

Re: Theoretical Unavoidable Death?

arandomperson12 wrote:But if you die in the early game, you do not lose a lot of progress/are not as invested in the character. Also, I thought of another unavoidable death: you are naga of chei. You take one step forwards, and 8 hellfireing monsters appear and instakill you.

Also revealing 8 tiles in one step as a cheinaga is not only avoidable, but also highly inadvisable.
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