The Tavern

they are way too hard for where they generate in comparison to the other branches. enemies hit hard, a lot of MR requirements, poison, water nymphs... its just harder than other branches

I think status quo is fine, but if something must be done, I'd rather buff the other branches.

I'd also give some more Shoals denizens SInv so that it wouldn't be so easy with invis...

Sprucery wrote:I think status quo is fine, but if something must be done, I'd rather buff the other branches.

I'd also give some more Shoals denizens SInv so that it wouldn't be so easy with invis...

are you satan?

I like the idea of one of the two generated Lair branches being a bit harder than the other and Shoals do this very pretty well. What I'd do would be to pair Shoals with Snake as the stronger pair and Spider with Swamp as the weaker and consider buffing Snake a bit, maybe do something to nagas so walking away isn't so tremendously effective against most of the enemies there.

If theres something bad about shoals is that your resistances dont matter. Sea snakes have strong poison, manticores have barbs, aquamancers have icicle/primal wave, nymphs have water strike, come on...

I think resistances matter in Shoals as much as anywhere else (=not too much), which is a good thing.

Sprucery wrote:I think resistances matter in Shoals as much as anywhere else (=not too much), which is a good thing.

If you mean that when everything is a cake walk i agree, otherwise have fun doing snake pit without rf/relec/mr.

Leszczynek wrote:I like the idea of one of the two generated Lair branches being a bit harder than the other and Shoals do this very pretty well. What I'd do would be to pair Shoals with Snake as the stronger pair and Spider with Swamp as the weaker and consider buffing Snake a bit, maybe do something to nagas so walking away isn't so tremendously effective against most of the enemies there.

My suggestion: Buff Shoals. Nerf Slime a little. That's your stronger pair.

Nerf Snake a tiny bit, and that plus Spider and Swamp is your weaker set.

Each game you would get one weak S-branch and one strong. This leaves you short some XP and a rune, so to fix that, add a rune to Elf and bump Lair back to seven levels and every S-branch back to five levels.

The rune makes Elf a bit too strong of a choice, so cut maybe 1/3rd of the treasure from the end vault.

dynast wrote:
Sprucery wrote:I think resistances matter in Shoals as much as anywhere else (=not too much), which is a good thing.

If you mean that when everything is a cake walk i agree, otherwise have fun doing snake pit without rf/relec/mr.

I can see wanting MR/rElec quite a bit, but why rF? Salamanders are never very tough at the worst of times and they don't hit for that much fire damage

Shoals is fine to me. One of my favorite branches since 0.16. If I asked for anything to be changed about it, I'd want a few more walls/structures, so all the ranged mobs had less of a chance to get 15 free shots on me every time I poke my head out.

I do like the idea of a 'progression' between Spider/Snake and Shoals/Swamp, though - I very often get the Shoals/Spider combination and they seem so evenly matched that I often end up going back and forth between them a bit while trying to put on a few more levels.

dynast wrote:If you mean that when everything is a cake walk i agree, otherwise have fun doing snake pit without rf/relec/mr.

I've done snake very often without rF or rElec. I don't even check if I have them when I'm going into Snake. MR also does not matter in Snake especially.

Gongclonker wrote:Shoals is fine to me. One of my favorite branches since 0.16. If I asked for anything to be changed about it, I'd want a few more walls/structures, so all the ranged mobs had less of a chance to get 15 free shots on me every time I poke my head out.

I mostly agree, but also I wish Shoals caused less lag for me. It's always worse than other branches. I assume this is because of the shifting water. Maybe this is unavoidable, but I wish it nonetheless!

It sounds like you play webtiles in firefox, which has slowdowns when water tiles are on screen. If you play with chrome water tiles don't cause slowdowns, therefore shoals is as fast to play as everywhere else.

ps: i dislike chrome so only use portable chrome to play webtiles

Sprucery wrote:
dynast wrote:If you mean that when everything is a cake walk i agree, otherwise have fun doing snake pit without rf/relec/mr.

I've done snake very often without rF or rElec. I don't even check if I have them when I'm going into Snake. MR also does not matter in Snake especially.

Getting teleported in Snake is potentially very bad. Worse than most places. Constriction can screw with your escapes and anacondas are fast. Of course you can avoid or mitigate being teleported even with low mr, but doing so involves tedious play.

You guys are so pro.

dynast wrote:You guys are so pro.

2pro4us

Water Nymphs can drown me all they want.

one nice shoals change that would be a slight nerf:

eliminate splashing noise from rising water. shoals is hard enough without this annoying source of noise, which is easy to forget about and easy but tedious to ignore if you choose to do so. it also doesn't make sense, because the player is not falling into water but rather it is rising around the player's feet.

Shoals just require a different set of 'resistances' than Snake and Swamp. If you go in with A skilled shield, Repel or Deflect missiles, or invis you should be able to handle it.

Just think about it the same way you would do Snake if you didn't have any rPois.

dynast wrote:You guys are so pro.

Hey, I'm agreeing with you as far as I can tell.

On topic: I don't think shoals needs to be nerfed. You don't need special equipment or spells (though the right equipment can make it fairly straightforward), you just need to take it slowly, and to recognise when a situation is about to go bad. I've done it as first rune on occasion, though under normal circumstances it wouldn't be my first choice. It punishes careless play more than the other S branches perhaps, but the game shouldn't be balanced for the people who just want to sprint through everything.

Xion350 wrote:Shoals just require a different set of 'resistances' than Snake and Swamp. If you go in with A skilled shield, Repel or Deflect missiles, or invis you should be able to handle it.

Notice how your described set of "resistances" also applies to the other branches, so what makes shoals easier makes other branches easier aswell.

Xion350 wrote:Just think about it the same way you would do Snake if you didn't have any rPois.

Yeah, because poison is a huge nuke with no way to cure.

to cure

(i.e., curing pot)

(in case a newb is watching)

Shoals is easier to hex than snake for what its worth, so that can make it an easier choice for certain characters,

The Tavern

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