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Dynast's strength meter for Gods.
Posted:
Friday, 24th June 2016, 19:28
by dynast
Help - Nom passive powers that allow the player to deal with situations indirectly, or let the situation deal with itself. Mostly summons.
Buff - Temporary/Instant effects to be invoked by the player.
Improve - Passive abilities, gifts and other long-term buffes.
Drawback - Drawbacks.
Update:
- god.jpg (175.43 KiB) Viewed 10280 times
Thats all i got.
Re: Dynast's strength meter for Gods.
Posted:
Friday, 24th June 2016, 19:32
by duvessa
Qazlal should be +++ drawback. Not going to get into the rest.
Re: Dynast's strength meter for Gods.
Posted:
Friday, 24th June 2016, 19:37
by Sandman25
Yes, I am afraid it takes too much effort to analyze OP. Maybe you need TL/DR section or table format.
Re: Dynast's strength meter for Gods.
Posted:
Friday, 24th June 2016, 19:39
by dynast
duvessa wrote:Qazlal should be +++ drawback. Not going to get into the rest.
I guess, taking every species in consideration half of them cannot handle the entire dungeon on their asses, even with stairdancing.
Re: Dynast's strength meter for Gods.
Posted:
Friday, 24th June 2016, 20:09
by Laraso
Yea, a table or graph format would make this much more readable.
Re: Dynast's strength meter for Gods.
Posted:
Friday, 24th June 2016, 20:43
by Lasiace
Here ya go
- Code:
Name |Help |Buff |Improve |Drawback
Ash |... |+.. |+.. |+..
Beogh |++. |++. |... |...
Chei |... |++. |++. |+++
Dith |... |+.. |+.. |+..
Ely |... |+++ |... |+..
Fedhas |+++ |+.. |... |+..
Gozag |++. |++. |++. |+..
Hep |++. |... |... |...
Jiyva |... |++. |* |++.
Kiku |... |++. |++. |...
Lugonu |++. |+.. |+.. |...
Makh |* |+.. |+.. |...
Nem |No comment
Oka |... |++. |++. |...
Pak |... |++. |+++ |+..
Qaz |+.. |+++ |+.. |++.
Ru |... |++. |+.. |*
Sif |... |++. |++. |...
TSO |++. |++. |... |++.
Trog |++. |++. |+.. |++.
Uska |No comment
Veh |... |... |+++ |...
Xom |* |* |* |*
Yred |+++ |+.. |... |...
Zin |... |++. |... |+..
Re: Dynast's strength meter for Gods.
Posted:
Friday, 24th June 2016, 23:03
by Skrybe
Oka's gifts ("Improve") are better than Trog's? Antimagic on a good weapon beats just about anything Oka will gift, short of an extremely lucky artifact.
Re: Dynast's strength meter for Gods.
Posted:
Friday, 24th June 2016, 23:47
by Hurricos
Skrybe wrote:Oka's gifts ("Improve") are better than Trog's? Antimagic on a good weapon beats just about anything Oka will gift, short of an extremely lucky artifact.
Oka gifts armour, so you get a decent weapon and decent armour instead of a slightly-more-decent weapon, and Finesse+Heroism is more useful than Berserk, even if it is more expensive (reasoning, of course, being that berserk ends badly).
BIA slaughters everything, hence the big Help.
Re: Dynast's strength meter for Gods.
Posted:
Friday, 24th June 2016, 23:56
by duvessa
Hurricos wrote:Oka gifts armour, so you get a decent weapon and decent armour
With Oka you often don't get either of those things
Re: Dynast's strength meter for Gods.
Posted:
Saturday, 25th June 2016, 06:43
by TonberryJam
Chei buffs should be off the scale. +15 stats.
Re: Dynast's strength meter for Gods.
Posted:
Saturday, 25th June 2016, 07:59
by Magipi
The chart tells nothing about the strength of gods.
Also, it is a design error that 3 dimensions are positive and the 4th is negative. Thus the size of the red rectangle means nothing.
Re: Dynast's strength meter for Gods.
Posted:
Saturday, 25th June 2016, 09:00
by Shard1697
Would be easier to read if it was like... active/passive/drawback...and then possibly something like "Earliness" aka how fast you get useful advantages(fedhas would be high in this, because you get wandering mushrooms very fast when they are quite powerful, TSO would be low in this because it takes long time to build piety in normal dungeon and is not that useful until later in the game). Distinction between "help" and "buff" is unclear, especially since it says "mostly summons". What else does it apply to besides summons?
Re: Dynast's strength meter for Gods.
Posted:
Saturday, 25th June 2016, 09:20
by Sprucery
In any case, like Magipi said, the scale for Drawback should be reversed.
Re: Dynast's strength meter for Gods.
Posted:
Saturday, 25th June 2016, 12:19
by 4Hooves2Appendages
Zin, the one true god, should be buff+++ because sanctuary and imprison are really strong. Also Zin does provide passive protection from hell effects and mutations, so Improv+.
Re: Dynast's strength meter for Gods.
Posted:
Saturday, 25th June 2016, 14:04
by dynast
I should have went for 5 pips because some god improvements are very unnoticable to get at least one pip, like zin's(mutation exclusion is not a improvement unless you are worshipping him after the mutation gamble and hell effects is a very specific one) or tso's(halo, holy branding).
I didnt factor in the earliness because altars appear randomly and fedhas is the only god with upside-down abilities.
As far as this chart not telling anything goes, what did you expect? These are the four main unexplained factors about gods(for me at least). A god gives you something to improve yourself with or not, has drawbacks or not, gives direct and indirect help by means of summons or active abilities or both or none.
Im not gonna get into little details like yred's army dissapearing on v:5, zot or extended, fedhas's fruit quest for zot:5, mahk's megazig strats and so on.
Re: Dynast's strength meter for Gods.
Posted:
Saturday, 25th June 2016, 15:48
by Sar
Qaz looks to be the best god. His graph even kinda looks like an altar! Wow!
Re: Dynast's strength meter for Gods.
Posted:
Monday, 27th June 2016, 10:09
by lethediver
Jivya buff should be higher ranked, slimify is a god tier ability.
Also invert all the drawback corners and rename to permissiveness.
But overall, really cool charts.
Re: Dynast's strength meter for Gods.
Posted:
Monday, 27th June 2016, 10:28
by mopl
Nothing for Zin's Sanctuary/Imprison ? That's a big Help imho... I also don't get the TSO drawback.
I think that Dynast did a nice work but the charts don't show it very well... sadly...
Re: Dynast's strength meter for Gods.
Posted:
Monday, 27th June 2016, 13:37
by dynast
TSO drawbacks: cant use poison, drain, vamp, cant use poison spells, necromancy or certain summons, cant stab or go invi, amongst other things i cant remember.
I categozired Zin skills as buffes, though thats debatable.
I just now realized i could have inverted the drawback meter, i am a idiot.
Re: Dynast's strength meter for Gods.
Posted:
Monday, 27th June 2016, 14:07
by Leszczynek
So, why Nemelex?
I'd probably put him at 0 or 1 buff, 0 or 1 improve (these two can be shuffled around I think), 3 help and 1+ drawback - just had a game where Wild Magic exploded in my face for around 40 damage.
Re: Dynast's strength meter for Gods.
Posted:
Monday, 27th June 2016, 15:56
by dynast
I havent played nemelex lately but it would be something like that, except no improve because he no longer uses evo.
Re: Dynast's strength meter for Gods.
Posted:
Tuesday, 28th June 2016, 03:07
by milski
Why does Qaz have zero improve and help? I get that the big thing is disaster area, but he gives you fairly solid passive defense buffs, and both clouds and summons provide fairly strong indirect offense.
He should also probably have a much higher drawback, to be fair.
Re: Dynast's strength meter for Gods.
Posted:
Tuesday, 28th June 2016, 03:08
by duvessa
milski wrote:Why does Qaz have zero improve and help?
because nothing about dynast's scoring system makes sense
Re: Dynast's strength meter for Gods.
Posted:
Tuesday, 28th June 2016, 04:48
by andreas
What is the meaning of the red x's that are separated from the bulk of the red shape? (Like, Xom has four unconnected x's at the corners.)
The chart is pretty.
Re: Dynast's strength meter for Gods.
Posted:
Tuesday, 28th June 2016, 11:37
by milski
andreas wrote:What is the meaning of the red x's that are separated from the bulk of the red shape? (Like, Xom has four unconnected x's at the corners.)
The chart is pretty.
I think they're meant to say that the god is inconsistent in that attribute. Mahkleb is really strong at helping... provided you don't randomly get an enemy executioner. Xom is really strong at everything if you're lucky. Ru sacrifices make his drawback rather random.
Re: Dynast's strength meter for Gods.
Posted:
Tuesday, 28th June 2016, 13:25
by Sar
andreas wrote:What is the meaning of the red x's
x is for Xom
Re: Dynast's strength meter for Gods.
Posted:
Tuesday, 28th June 2016, 13:46
by dynast
milski wrote:Why does Qaz have zero improve and help?
He has one pip of each, one pip of improve for clouds, resists upon taking damage, rmsl and sh bonus, and one pip of help for elemental force.
andreas wrote:What is the meaning of the red x's that are separated from the bulk of the red shape?
Thats a variable, it means that value may vary from game to game(Ru sacrifices) or constantly during the same game(jiyva ride). The x on makhleb's help doesnt mean anything tbh, having 2 pips in help and one in drawback makes more sense.
Re: Dynast's strength meter for Gods.
Posted:
Wednesday, 29th June 2016, 03:52
by archaeo
Laraso wrote:Yea, a table or graph format would make this much more readable.
am I the only one who liked these? They're perfect for my forthcoming set of Crawl god trading cards.
Re: Dynast's strength meter for Gods.
Posted:
Wednesday, 29th June 2016, 14:49
by dynast
archaeo wrote:They're perfect for my forthcoming set of Crawl god trading cards.
Only if Gozag is the super trump card.
Re: Dynast's strength meter for Gods.
Posted:
Saturday, 2nd July 2016, 15:05
by pubby