Crypt Cleanser
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Hepliaklqana and cats
- For this message the author Hellmonk has received thanks: 6
- duvessa, Lasty, nago, Reptisaurus, TeshiAlair, zxc23
If it doesn't fit anywhere else, it belongs here. Also, come here if you just need to get hammered.
Crypt Cleanser
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Shoals Surfer
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My suggestion is to remove Felids in crawl 0.19.
Ziggurat Zagger
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Tomb Titivator
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crate wrote:(related: please remove dith's fire conduct)
HardboiledGargoyle wrote:yah it's weird, fire casts shadows anyway... how about a light conduct? that would only make him hate corona, gnoll shamans, fauns, Dowan, Kirke, that Brilliance eveningstar, and holy beings.crate wrote:(related: please remove dith's fire conduct)
Zot Zealot
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Tomb Titivator
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1f4ad91 wrote:Make Dithmenos specifically hate fire
As opposed to "fire and Corona and haloes". The latter conducts
were a bottomless can of worms.
The new conduct is themed as Dithmenos having an age-old grudge
against fire. This means that Corona is now OK, as is the
Eveningstar of Brilliance; however, the latter's halo illuminates
nothing beyond them player themself while following Dithmenos,
which seems like a pretty reasonable & thematic setup.
Slime Squisher
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Crypt Cleanser
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Tomb Titivator
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genericpseudonym wrote:Hating light is definitely more thematic but hating fire is more straightforward and simple for players to understand. Everyone can see that corona or haloes would be bad but what about things like mutagenic glow or Olgreb's Toxic Radiance? How about "your rapier glows with a cold blue light?"
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Dungeon Master
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Shoals Surfer
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dpeg wrote:That has to stop, the idea I came up with is making Time Is Money a Gozag rule: for each level, after some amount of turns (doesn't matter too much how many), corpses don't yield gold. (They can disappear or stay corpses or becomes fools' gold, i.e. distract monsters but don't increase your purse.)
duvessa wrote:teleportitis is annoying but i dont think you could ever convince me it is dangerous, let alone crippling
duvessa wrote:DCSS Go: jump down the nearest manhole and fully explore the sewers before you go back out
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Location: Brazil. RS, Santa Cruz do Sul.
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Shoals Surfer
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Shoals Surfer
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dpeg wrote:4H2A: This thread contains a posting by duvessa about removing a god that has been branched into trunk just hours ago. It contains your posting about dismissing Hepliaklqana (and perhaps also Ukayaw, not clear from context), too.
There's no contextual feedback whatsoever in these two postings. So to me, they display pure hostility. (This is also why I think that posters like duvessa make this forum an outright toxic place, until there's nobody left who seriously wants to discuss Crawl. On top of the snarky one-linerism, there's also the social aspect: somebody came up with the idea for the new god, and coded them. I have played both H and U, and they're genuinely distinct from all other gods. This is a huge achievement given how large Crawl's pantheon is by now. There has been a lot of work going into these gods, including a lot of polishing and balancing. I think the most polite way of expressing my feelings in English is: fuck you too.)
To answer your question: What does "fully-baked" mean for you? This is an amateur game project. (However, I have a little insight into professional video game develepment, and I'm not convinced their design standards are actually higher than ours. Just so nobody misunderstands me here: their *production values* are much, much higher than anything in the roguelike genre, including DCSS.)
For me, "fully-baked" would mean three things: (1) distinct from the other gods, (2) polished by Crawl standards, this is about interface and power level, (3) carries enough flavour that you can explain the god easily to a non-crawler.
Gozag was exclusively my idea. (The other gods I helped design were: Lugonu, Beogh, Ashenzari, Fedhas but these were all group efforts. I also modified a number of existing gods.) Since you bring this up in this thread, right after half-baked vs fully-baked, I assume you put Gozag into the former camp. I am quite happy with the gold god, there is one change that should be done: currently, you are incentivised to hunt down and kill monsters forever, also on fully cleared levels, for the gold. That has to stop, the idea I came up with is making Time Is Money a Gozag rule: for each level, after some amount of turns (doesn't matter too much how many), corpses don't yield gold. (They can disappear or stay corpses or becomes fools' gold, i.e. distract monsters but don't increase your purse.)
Shoals Surfer
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Slime Squisher
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dpeg wrote:Elitist: full clearing is fine. The problem with Gozag is that you're encouraged to linger around *after clearing* a level. And that's not healthy. There are various ways to address this; I mentioned one which I find thematic. Another would be to simply hand out no money for monsters spawned after initial generation. That's very direct, but less flavourful; and I think time=miney could lead to more interesting gameplay, too, especially once/when/if the food conduct disappears (because food is changed).
Glad you like Gozzy
Shoals Surfer
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infinitevox wrote:As for Beogh,
He's Orc Jesus. So it makes sense that only Orcs can worship him. I've honestly never played with this god, because I never play Orcs, but I appreciate the flavor. I'm not gonna get all buttmad because I wanna play a Ds^Beogh and have an army of other Ds following me around destroying things. The entire god is built and balanced around Orcs, opening it up to all the other species would require completely re-balancing the god, which to me looks like a nightmare.
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HardboiledGargoyle wrote:Those are light sources in flavor only, not mechanicsgenericpseudonym wrote:things like mutagenic glow
btw... "The [Corona and Halo] conducts were a bottomless can of worms." - howw?? One spell and an unrand: a can of worms
Swamp Slogger
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Beogh canonically accepts non-orc worshipers in Mennas' backstory, so this should be okay flavor-wise too.
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andreas wrote:Are people talking about Mennas' flavour description when they mention his backstory? The assertion in the quote seems like an over-reading of that description.
(I've seen this claimed a few times, and I always wonder if there is some other text that is meant.)
By all accounts the orcs were
not happy with Mennas. They demanded he swear Beogh was the one true god, and
when Mennas remained silent they cut out his tongue.
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Tiktacy wrote:@Dpeg: People get pissed off at you because you are Guy Fieri, you are the Flavor Town Guy. Now, this would normally be just fine, but part of crawls design goals is putting gameplay above flavor, but you don't always do that, and people really hate it when you go against something that a game is known for. Imagine if in sonic the hedgehog, there was a snail character that moved really slowly, that doesn't mean that slow and steady is a bad thing, but nobody is going to like the slow guy in a game based around going fast.
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Tiktacy wrote:Why in trogs name would you cry removing an actually unique species when species like halflings and kobolds still exist?
Tiktacy wrote:Imagine if in sonic the hedgehog, there was a snail character that moved really slowly, that doesn't mean that slow and steady is a bad thing, but nobody is going to like the slow guy in a game based around going fast.
Shoals Surfer
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PleasingFungus wrote:it'd be fair to argue either way, except that everything else in crawl indicates that Beogh only accepts orcs.
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CanOfWorms wrote:Tiktacy wrote:Why in trogs name would you cry removing an actually unique species when species like halflings and kobolds still exist?Tiktacy wrote:Imagine if in sonic the hedgehog, there was a snail character that moved really slowly, that doesn't mean that slow and steady is a bad thing, but nobody is going to like the slow guy in a game based around going fast.
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Croases wrote:dpeg said that he has defended orc-only Beogh before, but I don't recall ever hearing an actual defense from him. All he did was to restate his position ("I want Beogh to retain its race restrictions") over and over, which isn't much of a defense.
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Croases wrote:Is there anything else in Crawl that indicates that Beogh only accepts orcs, other than Beogh only accepting orcs?
I think Mennas' flavor is the only other place where Beogh plays a central role, but I might be wrong.
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Croases wrote:PleasingFungus wrote:it'd be fair to argue either way, except that everything else in crawl indicates that Beogh only accepts orcs.
Is there anything else in Crawl that indicates that Beogh only accepts orcs, other than Beogh only accepting orcs?
I think Mennas' flavor is the only other place where Beogh plays a central role, but I might be wrong.
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Lasty wrote:My big problem is that felids basically play a game w/o loot (well, very little loot), and in my opinion loot is a defining feature of crawl. Loot leads to excitement, and loot leads to differentiation of characters as you find different loot at different times, and make choices over which loot to use and which to ignore. The lack of loot makes most felids feel really similar from game to game, and means that many of the moments of excitement (discovery of a loot hoard!) have no emotional or decision-making weight attached.
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Tiktacy wrote:No, orcs and trolls both appear in orcish mines, where beogh is generally found.
The thing that most confuses me about beoghs flavor of only excepting orcs is that there already exists a god in the game that is the leader of a race that is not consistent with the players: Jiyva. I guess you could argue that maybe that would make them too similar, but thats no different then saying TSO and ely are too similar because they forbid undead and demonspawn races.
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Tiktacy wrote:Doesn't removing felids for that sort of go against the whole idea of "Improve not remove" that I see from devs all the time?
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