Conjure Ball Lightning to Lvl 5


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Post Monday, 28th March 2016, 17:57

Conjure Ball Lightning to Lvl 5

CBL has killed every character I have ever learned/used it on, so +1 for it being in crawl. Maybe if we move it down to lvl 5 it will kill more players.

[From this thread.]

Edit: Even better, move it to lvl 5 and swap it with lightning bolt in the starting AE book.

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Post Monday, 28th March 2016, 20:01

Re: Conjure Ball Lightning to Lvl 5

I have had a very small number of chars use cbl effectively without death, but there is certainly nearly always a less risky option...

Providing a spell which is highly situational, and comes with even more risk than lightning bolt in a starting book doesn't sound great to me, it would be like adding necromutation to the necro starting book.
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Post Monday, 28th March 2016, 20:15

Re: Conjure Ball Lightning to Lvl 5

I just want to point out that Lightning Bolt deals 1d131 at max power, while CBL deals 3d23 per ball at max. CBL deals less, but more bell-curved damage which is an exception for the lightning spells group. Not to mention you get more than 1 ball-per-cast, and that the explosion always hits whatever it engulfs.
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Post Monday, 28th March 2016, 20:20

Re: Conjure Ball Lightning to Lvl 5

if you use cbl to kill pointblank creatures you deserve to die. Leave exploding yourself to professional black draconians, please.
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Post Tuesday, 29th March 2016, 01:46

Re: Conjure Ball Lightning to Lvl 5

If you want to change cbl I would suggest just making it always have the small-size explosion, since the squarelos changes significantly increased the size of the larger one relative to the player los.

It doesn't need any other changes imo.
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Post Tuesday, 29th March 2016, 02:06

Re: Conjure Ball Lightning to Lvl 5

Don't use CBL unless you have rElec. Staff of Air is probably the best source of that since it also enhances it...

Similarly; don't use Chain Lightning unless you have rElec.

And don't let Lightning Bolts bounce so they can hit you, unless you have rElec.

(If you play with lightning, you're going to get shocked; have rElec).

CBL doesn't NEED changed, but it's very similar to Ozocubu's Refrigeration in terms of actual use IMHO. Even has a form that makes it safe to use (Ice Form for Ozo's; Statue Form for CBL; though Statue + CBL requires having level 6's in 4 separate spell schools so it's that practical generally).
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Post Tuesday, 29th March 2016, 02:07

Re: Conjure Ball Lightning to Lvl 5

I only used it significantly in one game. The way I used it was point-blank or short-range. I don't think that reducing the size of the explosions is necessarily a buff, could be a nerf depending on how it's used. From my limited experience I found that attempting to not get hit by the balls results in few balls hitting the target (1 or 2 at best) and it's a waste of time and mana. Using it in close range and in a small room results in much better and fairly reliable damage, which makes the spell sometimes useful.

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Post Tuesday, 29th March 2016, 02:09

Re: Conjure Ball Lightning to Lvl 5

Pre-squarelos you could use it quite safely without relec (they have spore AI, they don't wander randomly any more). It's a lot harder now since the explosions are so much bigger.

Sar

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Post Tuesday, 29th March 2016, 04:33

Re: Conjure Ball Lightning to Lvl 5

kuniqs wrote:I just want to point out that Lightning Bolt deals 1d131 at max power

Wow!

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Post Tuesday, 29th March 2016, 13:35

Re: Conjure Ball Lightning to Lvl 5

Better fix: buff CBL by making balls sinv and making them explode when next to a target, not in range of them.

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Post Tuesday, 29th March 2016, 13:48

Re: Conjure Ball Lightning to Lvl 5

Sar wrote:
kuniqs wrote:I just want to point out that Lightning Bolt deals 1d131 at max power

Wow!

Is it at all practical to have max power on lightning bolt? What kind of int/conj/air would you need to accomplish that?

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Post Tuesday, 29th March 2016, 14:54

Re: Conjure Ball Lightning to Lvl 5

dowan wrote:
Sar wrote:
kuniqs wrote:I just want to point out that Lightning Bolt deals 1d131 at max power

Wow!

Is it at all practical to have max power on lightning bolt? What kind of int/conj/air would you need to accomplish that?

Its practical to have max power on lighting bolt, its not practical to use it though, since you have other air spells that cant miss.
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Sar

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Post Tuesday, 29th March 2016, 16:16

Re: Conjure Ball Lightning to Lvl 5

Good spellpower LBolt is pretty accurate IME.

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Post Tuesday, 29th March 2016, 16:27

Re: Conjure Ball Lightning to Lvl 5

High power lightning bolt is insane midgame. It's basically DEAE / TEWz's bread and butter.

It's accurate enough that it hits most things; very few things resist electricity completely enough to not be destroyed by it (even gargoyes, ancient liches, curse skulls and angels can be gimped with hard enough zaps), and it penetrates to LOS range by 7#s of power (and isn't hindered when it does hit things). It is king among bolt spells, especially when not following Vehumet.

The damage is spiky enough to tear through even the mightiest AC, and resistances are damned by it; and if you have position at your side, doublezaps make it the single highest single-target damage dealing effect in the game (besides Chain lightning).

Lbolt slaughters Cerebov (and used to slaughter most panlords until they were given more rElec), but so do most Air spells (besides Airstrike).

Sar

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Post Tuesday, 29th March 2016, 16:44

Re: Conjure Ball Lightning to Lvl 5

It's also probably worth noting that Elec attacks halve AC and that you can still multizap it.

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Post Tuesday, 29th March 2016, 18:24

Re: Conjure Ball Lightning to Lvl 5

Only some elec attacks and I don't think lightning bolt is among of those. Yeah spoilery, some good players should know about that.
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Post Tuesday, 29th March 2016, 20:51

Re: Conjure Ball Lightning to Lvl 5

dynast wrote:if you use cbl to kill pointblank creatures you deserve to die. Leave exploding yourself to professional black draconians, please.


OOO! I killed myself with black draconian breath once! I even had an entry in learndb for it for a while before it got deleted =p

Does that make me a professional?

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Post Tuesday, 29th March 2016, 21:17

Re: Conjure Ball Lightning to Lvl 5

prozacelf wrote:
dynast wrote:if you use cbl to kill pointblank creatures you deserve to die. Leave exploding yourself to professional black draconians, please.


OOO! I killed myself with black draconian breath once! I even had an entry in learndb for it for a while before it got deleted =p

Does that make me a professional?

Dunno, how many creatures did you take with you?
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Post Wednesday, 30th March 2016, 01:53

Re: Conjure Ball Lightning to Lvl 5

Depends on how we're defining it. I killed one or two boggarts but I was also surrounded by all the shadow creatures they'd summoned, which would put it more around a dozen or so if we count them.

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Post Wednesday, 30th March 2016, 02:25

Re: Conjure Ball Lightning to Lvl 5

nago wrote:Only some elec attacks and I don't think lightning bolt is among of those. Yeah spoilery, some good players should know about that.
Lightning bolt is one of them, along with shock and cbl.

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