site:crawl.develz.org/tavern "why not"


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Ziggurat Zagger

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Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Sunday, 6th March 2016, 03:41

site:crawl.develz.org/tavern "why not"

Why not GSC for trolls?
Why Not VSFi?
VSFi is not a recommended character combination, but I'm not sure why.
Do Vampiric Brands feed the wielder and if so why not?
...
I understand Vampiric heals you, but why wouldn't it feed you as well? Would it be unbalancing if a vampiric weapon fed the wielder on a successful strike if the wielder was at full health?
the fighter background can choose any melee type as starting weapon (including shortsword) - why not UC too? Seems to me that this change would of (small) benefit to that minority of players who want to go UC + shield, while not being a downside for anybody else. So... why not?
Clarity is criticized for being too situational, but you can increase the number of sources that inflict confusion. For example. Cacodemons have confuse and malmutate. Neqoxecs are the smaller cousins of cacodemons. Why do neqoxecs have malmutate, and not confuse? Why not the other way around?
Why don't Enchant Weapon Scrolls work on Enhancer Staves? I've never understood why enhancer staves don't allow their +0 to be increased for combat purposes. Why don't Enchant Weapon Scrolls work on enhancer staves? Do they work for rods? I can't recall; and if not, why not, since they are hand weapons too?
I don't think Leda's Liquefaction gets a lot of love - if I'm wrong about that then I take back this proposal. But assuming I'm right, why not get rid of the spell, and make it a cheap Qazlal ability?
Ok, I can kind of get behind that. It leaves the question though: why not just do what every other elemental school does and have high-lvl spells that do a solid percentage of irresistable damage?
1. Ice bridges: Why not? Sounds fun and not problematic to zap a wand of cold or cast a spell to freeze water.
Why not Split it so Abyss 1 and Abyss 2 can't access each other. Abyss 1 is where you get abyssed to by enemies. Abyss 2 requires a portal. There are no portals in the depths, only one in...Elf 3; similar placement to where an elf rune would be in the loot vault.
why not give the player a castable version of naga ritualists rP- spell?
If there's Cure Poison spell, why not add an option to remove, by lvl5 spell one random gnasty bad mutation after time... Which could be <X turns - Spell Power>. You could not use it agin before currently treated mutation is not cured.
Why not just keep the current system, but add a new "class", similar to Wanderer, that allows you to point-buy? That way everyone gets what they want.
Crawl isn't a multiplayer game, and not every combo has to be balanced in relation to every other one. It's okay if some people prefer playing with point buy and pick a "class" that's a little over or under powered.
Actually now that I think about it, instead of adding completely new races, why not add subdivisions of already existing races? Small tweaks like an added strength and weakness. Sort of picking a tribe or clan or whatever that your race comes from. It would add a bit more depth in the choice department without bogging down the start with endless menus.
Every other piece of armor adds the enchantment rating to AC. Why not make SH purely a function of Shield skill and type, and then add enchantment as an AC bonus? Or just make shields have inherent AC, like 1/5/10 or something, but boost the skill required to remove penalties to 10/15/20 so it's an actual investment?
Why not make offhand weapon behave exactly like unarmed auxiliary attack? It's not like offhand punch greatly unbalance the game...
Why would people bother then? Well if you've already invested in short blades and hit your plateau why not push further instead of accepting that you'll only ever be able to ninja runes and avoid danger because your short blades literally can't cut it. Pick up a second blade and fight on! Or... invest in said danger avoiding abilities and continue to ninja. Interesting game choices for an interesting game... or would be if people even gave this any thought at all.
If it's more fun to dual-wield weapons but not more powerful than using one big weapon, why not add dual-wielding?
Why not make hydra form get healing from killing any monster that can leave an edible corpse? (You can bite pieces off the corpse without having to eat it whole.)
Why not give 50% more efficiency to vamp weapons when in Dark Transformation? Or even 25, or 20%. I really think it should power up the efficiency of vamp weapons, if only a little bit.
The opportunity to worship Jiyva was rare and the change made it even smaller. Why not reduce slime spawn / consumption rate at low piety, for example, instead of making god inaccessible?
Why not let monsters randomly be faster than the player, but not slower? Wouldn't that be enough to prevent both the tedious healing in the no randomization case, and the tedious waiting for a gap as it is right now?
I imagine my rationale was something like "no other race is really like that, so why not."
A crazy thought: why not remove rods altogether and make their properties be weapon brands instead?
So about a week ago I rolled a DDNe and gave it a shot, he found an altar to Chei on dlvl 2 and i thought, why not.
Why are the Draconians just strolling around instead, well - using - the power of this ancient artifact? Why not Dragons? Draconians are just feeble mix of human and ancient beast. Blah.
Why not just make more haste spells with downsides?

Fire/something lvl6: Current haste buff+fire dmg over time to you(including burning scrolls and what not).
Charms lvl 6-8: mass haste. Hastes all allies. Will not haste self.
Poison/something lvl7- Current haste while slowly stacking poison debuffs over time. Some unresistable some not so rpoison doesn't completely mitigate the downside.
Charms/air- current haste? Increase the level and - lightning?
Necro/something- causes rot/torment every X turns.
Why not just auto sacrifice on sight every item that could produce the desired decks?
Why not give the goblins some skill with crossbows? No one has more than a +1 now, so it'd be a differentiating feature.
Why not add some UC weapons: studded/bladed gloves (could be gloves brand?), knuckledusters, cesti, katars?
I figured why not also go necromutation on a troll. First one died in lair, having gone directly to worshipping Kiku. Not willing to make that mistake again, this one went straight to Chei [...] Went smoothly, started out as a fighter with regen + animate dead, found statue form, used it and kept raising fighting skills. Had 3 runes and cleared Elf, still no necronomicon (I found akashic record, annihilations, and grand grimoire), so I switched to Kiku to run crypt/Zot. Found Necronomicon on crypt:1 (along with a Khufu entrance party!). Ah well; went back to Chei having not even reached Kiku's * gift (no piety for undead kills).
Alistair's suffers from a binary dependency on Clarity and a lack of differentiation from meph/mass confuse. Why not have it bypass clarity, confuse the player more briefly than the monsters? Maybe also do something like slow movement while confused? Slowing movement is not as big a deal on a confused monster and then people might use it so it's easier to chase confused guys down.
I found an early Zin altar, and I was planning to go to extended anyway, so why not? I never used Zin in the early and midgame, but heard that he is very good there too.
Why were so many races removed (if it was to remove LOTR references, then why not just rename them)?
Why not turn this hardcaps into softcaps? Any given monster can give you a solid +1 slaying if you kill him before the softcap, but otherwise there is a say 1 in (current_enchantment + 3) chance to increase it by 1.
As a suggestion, why not make the artefact better for elves as a nod to times past? Maybe only give MR+ to Deep Elves (and HE I suppose for as long as they're still around).
If the complaint is that fulsome iding potions is too powerful, why not just making Fulsome Distillation a level 2 spell and evaporate a level 3 spell?
From my point of view, the main trait of felids is their multiple lives. So, why not redesign them as a more normal race who can wear armour, wield a weapon, and such? Probably not all kinds of armour since they're small (only robes and dragon armour).
Instead of just doubling the MP costs, why not assign each spell level an appropriate cost?

1=1
2=2
3=5
4=7
5=10
6=12
7=14
8=16
9=20
Why not make [Black Draconian breath] act like a short-range rod of lightning?
What the hell, why worship fedhas!? is it for the free wrath? why not worship ely instead(like emikaela said) since you can get easy healing abilities even without invo and no wrath upon switching? Thats my strategy anyhow...
Why not make elemental skills behave like rings of fire\ice ? Every skill level in an elemental school acts like penalty to spell power and spell success. I think 1 level = -1 level to opposing school is to harsh, but 1 level = - 0.5 level looks nice. If someone has 10 earth magic, then he cast swiftness as if he has -5 to air skill and that can go negative, so his 3 levels in charms will not help him at all. He has both air and earth at 10? Good, but he cast his spells as if he had 5 and 5
So instead of buffing shield's defense value and making the dps vs sh choice even harder, why not gives some offensive value (passive or active special attack) or a special defense (new egos).
Why not Shadow Dragon Armour, 5 AC -1EV {Stlth} or {Inv}, and give Shadow Dragons themselves an appropriately stabby stealthy ability, like perfect invisibility until radius ~2 with an accompanying powerful short range attack? (I think Draining would fit better on Bone Dragons, anyway)

Why not Iron Dragon Armour, 13 AC -4 EV {Slow}?

Why not Quicksilver Dragon Armour, 4 AC 0 EV {MR} or 6 AC -2 EV {MR, Antimagic = Less Mana or Lower Spellpower or both}
Why not make it a pure 'approved' school, so the 'not approved schools' (Necro and Poison) are more clear from the beginning?
Why not put in Homer Simpson's idea of Dogs that shoot bees out of their mouths?
Why is the focus on communicating dungeon information from a server? Why not let the client and server share the same random seed. This way all that would need to be communicated would be inputs and (maybe) the status of various monsters, items, ghosts.
Why not have the piety gains scale off the aptitude of the skill sacrificed?
If replacing Malmutate with a Cause Glow attack seems to be a good idea, then why not instead of getting rid of "rMut turn it into an amulet of decontamination, giving either passive constant accelerated glow reduction, or evokable reduction by an Evocations-based amount?
Why not a translations that teleports parts of your target away from itself? I could see that.
After all we have 2 potions that heal, god healing of many types and regeneration. Why not 2 fairly rare, risky sources of permanent allies?
Why not use the sling staff as both a blunt weapon and a launcher? Only difficulty I see (besides coding it, which can't be more impossible than how rods work) is whether tab launches or swings. I'd say swing if there is something to swing at in melee range, and launch if there isn't.
Why not use canadians?
Why not just make levitation a lvl 1 spell found in the book of party tricks?
For the idea of "slippy" levitation, why not give this effect to a monster/trap?
Edited to add: pivoting off elmdor's point above, why not give Ely some kind of non-necromancy regenerative passive?
I mean melee naga of Chei. At that point, my speed is so low it's useless by the time I've gotten to temple, so why not make use of it?
Why not something like HeGl with Necromute? All the advantages of not being a caster, and all the advantages of necromute :D
Probably been suggested but why not make Shadow Dragon Hide turn into Pearl Dragon Armour with the Application of Enchant Armour? Pearl Dragon Armour is not over powered by the time one starts running into Shadow Dragons.
The only argument against this sort of thing I see from people is "use wizard mode". But why not take a couple hours to code something that would increase the enjoyment and options for players? The setting could show in the High Score list, or each setting could have a separate HS list (for those that care about that sort of thing) and only the 0 setting would be allowed for tournaments - unless someone wanted to run a -5 tournament.
Why not introduce a "scroll of artifacture" or some such. Similar to a scroll of acquirement, but you apply it to an item in your inventory. Introduce probabilities for rebranding, bonus/malus, additional properties. Balance would have to be a combination of the probability of completely ruining a decent weapon/armour/jewelry, and extraordinary rarity (i.e., generate only in branch ends, or specific mini-vaults with depth restrictions, maybe portal vaults). Only really a help for randart usage (at least it's base type is something you wanted to use), and risks making it useless.
5) On the subject of gods, why not Nemelex Xobeh? His decks give you escape options, which an ogre badly needs, and a shot at an early Experience card, which goes a long way towards getting that GSK to minimum delay.
Since halflings barely even exist in the game as monsters, why not just rename them to dwarves? Now people can play as a dwarf that can heal, kobolds are more of their own thing, and who really cares about losing halflings?
If you were to follow the comparison with Jesus through, why not have the final ability for the Beoghite follower be the ability to upgrade followers, à la the twelve apostles?
How to make M:6 less predictable? Why not add a different end boss that appears sometimes instead of TRJ.
Why not give them a +3 to +6 bonus to the skill (like oka's heroism), but allowing you to have only one manual read at any time?
Why not swap to Kiku for guaranteed necromutation and then back to Makh?
Why not allow evoking the staff of summoning for an abjuration effect, with power based on the average of Summoning + Evo? That way non-summoners will still be able to use it but not as well as specialized characters.
Really what I am trying to say is that e.g. Depths is really fun and only 5 levels long. Why not make that 10-15 levels long?
Why not with every new release also make an ingame alternative, Like DCSS Nostaliga with stuff that hopefully dont take much programming, like including all races that were removed over the last few years (Djinnis, LavaOrc´s, Sludge Elfs, MD´s, Gnome´s and beyond and).
The start abyss does only have D1 loot, yes, but it's unlimited loot. Why not start the dungeon with a few more stacks of scrolls and pots if you have the opportunity? The stuff you'll find on the dungeon floor is not unlimited- it's a scarce resource. No shame in augmenting it if you have the chance.


Galefury wrote:"Why not?" is the wrong question to ask in game design. Instead you should be answering "Why?". How would this make gameplay more interesting? How would it make crawl more accessible? Are there any problems this would fix?

For this message the author duvessa has received thanks: 7
Clownie, crate, dynast, Lasty, nago, yesno, ZipZipskins

Shoals Surfer

Posts: 297

Joined: Wednesday, 9th July 2014, 08:20

Post Sunday, 6th March 2016, 03:56

Re: site:crawl.develz.org/tavern "why not"

I would have liked this more if half these guys didn't actually explain why they're proposing these changes.

Cocytus Succeeder

Posts: 2229

Joined: Sunday, 18th December 2011, 13:31

Post Sunday, 6th March 2016, 09:44

Re: site:crawl.develz.org/tavern "why not"

This should totally replace badforum Learndb's entry
screw it I hate this character I'm gonna go melee Gastronok

Crypt Cleanser

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Joined: Saturday, 5th December 2015, 06:56

Post Sunday, 6th March 2016, 09:48

Re: site:crawl.develz.org/tavern "why not"

Croases wrote:I would have liked this more if half these guys didn't actually explain why they're proposing these changes.


I agree. "Why not" is being used as a rhetorical device in most of these posts, which the author uses before pivoting to the "why".

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1822

Joined: Thursday, 31st May 2012, 15:45

Post Sunday, 6th March 2016, 13:41

Re: site:crawl.develz.org/tavern "why not"

The first two are mine, but I'm not ashamed of them because they were genuine questions about not understanding the current game design instead of half-baked design proposals. Something seemed like a good idea to me, but I saw that it wasn't recommended or implemented, so I asked and learned why I was wrong. That seems to me like the Tavern working as intended.
Won (52). Remaining (15): 5 species: Ba, Fe, Mu, Na, Op; 5 Backgrounds: AM, Wr, Su, AE, Ar; 5 gods: Jiyv, newNem, WJC, newSif, newFedh

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1667

Joined: Saturday, 11th October 2014, 06:12

Location: Brazil. RS, Santa Cruz do Sul.

Post Sunday, 6th March 2016, 14:40

Re: site:crawl.develz.org/tavern "why not"

Depths is really fun

HAHAAHAHAHAHhahahaahahhha... HAHAHAHAAHHAAHHAHAHAHA!!!
You shall never see my color again.

Zot Zealot

Posts: 1031

Joined: Friday, 26th April 2013, 19:52

Location: AZ, USA

Post Sunday, 6th March 2016, 23:06

Re: site:crawl.develz.org/tavern "why not"

Galefury wrote:One thing to keep in mind: when proposing to change something, it's okay to change things. Your proposal already removes miscast effects and the time cost of recasting. Now why not change more to actually turn it into a good idea? Currently it's needlessly complicated because you are trying to keep most of the costs that happen when recasting.
Galefury wrote:If you have rF, why not? Frost giants are often ice cave bosses, and well worth killing with good rC and curare. I think early fire giants are much less common, so probably not worth talking about.
Galefury wrote:Sure it's possible with a good bow, with any god you want. It might require some luck with deeper floors, and maybe another zig for preparation so you can train the right skills, but possible, sure, why not? Depending on luck with deep floors it might even be easy. Zigs are hugely variable, and as long as you are careful and have a way to save yourself from dying (and maybe skip floors) you're going to be fine.
Galefury wrote:Your formula makes zero sense. Why not just say whatever it is you want to say with words?
Galefury wrote:Why not? You're going to fight strong monsters at XL 26, so having powerful invocations is okay. Getting invocations skill for free would be a buff, yes, and gods that are already strong would need some nerf to compensate or a different solution. But I don't see why this wouldn't work for Fedhas for example.
Galefury wrote:
twelwe wrote:Whatever the solution is, it should not have higher consequences for one type of background than another.

Why not? I keep hearing that casters need a nerf all the time. Then when some change is actually bad for casters you complain? This actually sounds like a big plus for nausea.
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Vestibule Violator

Posts: 1591

Joined: Saturday, 3rd August 2013, 18:59

Post Monday, 7th March 2016, 09:30

Re: site:crawl.develz.org/tavern "why not"

I actually liked reading this. It wasn't quite as amusing as duvessa's BadForum entries(many of which I am honored to play a large part in) but I think its amusing in its own unique way.

Great idea minmay, I don't think I ever would have returned to these forums if not for your silly antics and hilarious rhetorics.

In any case, its nice to see that the majority of people on the forums who make use of "why not" have a tendency to explain their reasoning and use the term simply as a supplementary argument.
To all new players: Ignore all strategy guides posted on the wiki, ask questions in the Advice forum, players with lots of posts normally have the best advice.

crawl.akrasiac.org:8080 <- take this link to play online or spectate.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8786

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Monday, 7th March 2016, 10:38

Re: site:crawl.develz.org/tavern "why not"

you people are taking this way too seriously
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Barkeep

Posts: 1788

Joined: Saturday, 29th June 2013, 16:52

Post Monday, 7th March 2016, 12:11

Re: site:crawl.develz.org/tavern "why not"

duvessa wrote:you people are taking this way too seriously

can someone translate this into Latin for the Official Tavern Seal

Slime Squisher

Posts: 404

Joined: Sunday, 13th February 2011, 13:57

Post Monday, 7th March 2016, 12:18

Re: site:crawl.develz.org/tavern "why not"

Nice idea! :D
From Google, "vos es captus hoc serio".
But I suspect that someone with language skills could improve it.
For example "captus hoc serio es" rolls off the tongue well, but I've no idea about grammatical validity.

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