Evokable Abjuration?


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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Tuesday, 1st March 2016, 21:26

Evokable Abjuration?

Are there any items that can abjure enemy summons without learning a spell? If not, is there a good reason why this has been restricted from non-casters?
Won (52). Remaining (15): 5 species: Ba, Fe, Mu, Na, Op; 5 Backgrounds: AM, Wr, Su, AE, Ar; 5 gods: Jiyv, newNem, WJC, newSif, newFedh

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 1st March 2016, 21:29

Re: Evokable Abjuration?

Only the spell. Abjuration is only useful in the first place if you're a summoner yourself, so I'm not sure why you would want it on a non-caster.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 1st March 2016, 21:32

Re: Evokable Abjuration?

Crusade card still does abjuration, I think.

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duvessa

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Post Tuesday, 1st March 2016, 21:33

Re: Evokable Abjuration?

"The Crusade" card in decks creates an aura of abjuration.

duvessa wrote:Only the spell. Abjuration is only useful in the first place if you're a summoner yourself, so I'm not sure why you would want it on a non-caster.


...to dispell enemy summons? There are plenty of enemies whose summons most players would rather not fight; deep elf demonologists, pan lords with summon eyeballs, greater mummies to name a few.

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Post Tuesday, 1st March 2016, 21:37

Re: Evokable Abjuration?

There also used to be a rod with abjuration.
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Post Tuesday, 1st March 2016, 21:44

Re: Evokable Abjuration?

duvessa wrote:Only the spell. Abjuration is only useful in the first place if you're a summoner yourself, so I'm not sure why you would want it on a non-caster.
Some situations I thought of: You're fighting a summoner and lack penetration for whatever reason. You're Makhleb and want to mitigate a hostile demon summon.

For that matter, I'm not sure why it's a summoner that needs abjuration in the first place. I'd think you'd want it if the other guy is summoning stuff, not if you're the guy summoning stuff. But I've never gotten a Su past L:2 so what do I know.
Won (52). Remaining (15): 5 species: Ba, Fe, Mu, Na, Op; 5 Backgrounds: AM, Wr, Su, AE, Ar; 5 gods: Jiyv, newNem, WJC, newSif, newFedh

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Post Tuesday, 1st March 2016, 22:08

Re: Evokable Abjuration?

duvessa wrote:Only the spell. Abjuration is only useful in the first place if you're a summoner yourself, so I'm not sure why you would want it on a non-caster.


I'm arguing with duvessa so I'm probably wrong, but this seems untrue to me. It (specifically, the spell aura of abjuration; plain abjuration doesn't exist any more) is pretty useful against endgame/extended summoners (draconian callers, DE demonologists, shadow demons, mummy priests/greater mummies, pan lords, (a)liches, that kind of thing) as an alternative to something like silence, no? I cast it quite a few times / it was really useful on a recent non-summoning DEWz recently (especially in a zig, though that is not real crawl blah blah blah).

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 1st March 2016, 22:16

Re: Evokable Abjuration?

I understand what minmay is saying here and it's only slightly "wrong" (it's a lot like saying you should never get hit by a monster orb of destruction that you didn't actively decide to get hit by, except at range 1) but yes abjuration would be a pretty big convenience for most characters if there was a high-power source of it available for low investment. However, there isn't, and I don't see why it should be widely available.

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Post Wednesday, 2nd March 2016, 01:05

Re: Evokable Abjuration?

Abjuration is not literally useless if you are not using summons yourself, but its usefulness is low because you can already "abjure" hostile summons in nearly all cases by just walking away from them (and you can just kill elves, really). Abjuration on summoners is less useful than it once was, since you can no longer spam demon summons, but it's still a lot more useful than it is for non-summoners.

I forgot about crusade card, sorry about that.

Slime Squisher

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Post Friday, 4th March 2016, 23:52

Re: Evokable Abjuration?

Why not allow evoking the staff of summoning for an abjuration effect, with power based on the average of Summoning + Evo? That way non-summoners will still be able to use it but not as well as specialized characters.

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Post Saturday, 5th March 2016, 00:43

Re: Evokable Abjuration?

Why allow evoking the staff of summoning for an abjuration effect, with power based on the average of Summoning + Evo?

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Post Saturday, 5th March 2016, 07:29

Re: Evokable Abjuration?

duvessa wrote:Why allow evoking the staff of summoning for an abjuration effect, with power based on the average of Summoning + Evo?

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Post Saturday, 5th March 2016, 07:58

Re: Evokable Abjuration?

duvessa wrote:Why allow evoking the staff of summoning for an abjuration effect, with power based on the average of Summoning + Evo?
It used to abjure on hit with power based on summoning + evo, but that was removed as a summoner meleeing with enemy summons seemed like a bizarre edge case anyways.

Aura is a great spell, I never do extended without it (making the likes of Boggarts and Shadow Demons harmless for 8.0 skill in a skill I'm not otherwise using is generally a decent investment in my book)...it also makes pan/hell lords much less dangerous, an Ereshkigal that can't summon Shadow Fiends is much weaker than one that can (Antimagic works for the same purpose, yes).
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Post Saturday, 5th March 2016, 12:55

Re: Evokable Abjuration?

But with Aura vs. antimagic, you don't have to actually hit the summoner, be it with Mana Vipers or an AM weapon. Aura also works against summons it cast before the AM hit it.
Won (52). Remaining (15): 5 species: Ba, Fe, Mu, Na, Op; 5 Backgrounds: AM, Wr, Su, AE, Ar; 5 gods: Jiyv, newNem, WJC, newSif, newFedh

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Saturday, 5th March 2016, 22:03

Re: Evokable Abjuration?

Actually now that the amulet is gone, maybe the staff should get warding...
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Sunday, 6th March 2016, 02:45

Re: Evokable Abjuration?

The staff used to have warding...
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Post Sunday, 6th March 2016, 03:02

Re: Evokable Abjuration?

I thought the staff casts abjuration on stuff it hits.
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