Allow Kiku followers to brand ranged weapons with Pain

[dynast]

I am kind of disappointed that you can get a holy triple xbow but not a pain sling.

[ZipZipskins]

I liked this post primarily because you spelled "triple" with one P

[Lacuenta]

Or a bow of distortion.

[dynast]

Why did this get yiufed?

[Siegurt]

It looks like you failed to say how the game would be improved by this change. Yoy also fail to address balance concerns (Or explain why you think ranged combat and/or kiku need a buff)

[tabstorm]

It looks like you failed to say how the game would be improved by this change. Yoy also fail to address balance concerns (Or explain why you think ranged combat and/or kiku need a buff)

'

1. The game would be improved by it because it's cool. If you removed the double-brand thing it wouldn't be better than any other elemental brand, really.
2. DCSS is so easy that balance should not be much of a concern at this point aside from obvious extremes - especially because it's unlikely for this to change without a huge overhaul.

[Sar]

HaNe new meta

[dynast]

(Or explain why you think ranged combat and/or kiku need a buff)

I dont think that it is a buff in any way. Any damage dealer under kiku will use polearms if he want to benefit from having a undead army and i dont think worshipping kiku and suffering his wrath is worth for a pain ranged weapon and finally, you lose your chance of getting a necrobook because of that.
So yeah, my proposal is to add gameplay style variance, i thought that would be a obvious conclusion.

[Sar]

I've played plenty of Kiku users who used anything but polearms. Good polearms are rare anyway, though you could be boring and pain a spear, I guess,

[Siegurt]

(Or explain why you think ranged combat and/or kiku need a buff)

I dont think that it is a buff in any way. Any damage dealer under kiku will use polearms if he want to benefit from having a undead army and i dont think worshipping kiku and suffering his wrath is worth for a pain ranged weapon and finally, you lose your chance of getting a necrobook because of that.
So yeah, my proposal is to add gameplay style variance, i thought that would be a obvious conclusion.

Whether right or wrong, the fact that you didn't attempt to address any of those issues in your OP is why the thread was yuif'd

Things get moved out of Gdd for lack of comprehensive evaluation, not as a judgement of their value (at least that appears to be the theory, I am no mod), things that are simply bad, but detailed, are simply picked apart and/or flat out rejected, rather than being moved.

Regarding the actual content of your reply:
Even if you think that you aren't increasing the maximum power level, but rather increasing the flexibility of kiku, increased flexibility itself is a type of buff.

Secondarily, ranged weapons are simply better than non ranged ones, and being able to apply the single best damage brand to a creature at any range is very very powerful, and for firing through allies, there is portal projectile.

Thirdly, giving up the necronomicon gift for the pain branding is already a pretty balanced choice, I end up choosing the pain brand in probably 60-70% of my kiku games already, your proposal would push that up to like 95% for me, personally.

[Siegurt]

You have also conflated more choice with more variance, the two look similar on the surface, but really aren't at all.

[dynast]

Even if you think that you aren't increasing the maximum power level, but rather increasing the flexibility of kiku, increased flexibility itself is a type of buff.

...How relevant do you think this "buff" is?

Secondarily, ranged weapons are simply better than non ranged ones, and being able to apply the single best damage brand to a creature at any range is very very powerful, and for firing through allies, there is portal projectile.

Go ahead and play a ranged warper necro. Maybe a DE would be able to afford training a variety of skills and have magic to ask corpses, animate them then portal projectiles over it. You sure can do it, but it is not as effective as just playing a regular necro, so how is it a buff? This is the exact opposite of flexibility, this requires so many things in order to work properly(decent ranged weapon, ammo, transloc book).

Thirdly, giving up the necronomicon gift for the pain branding is already a pretty balanced choice, I end up choosing the pain brand in probably 60-70% of my kiku games already, your proposal would push that up to like 95% for me, personally.

Thats necronomicon's book problem, am i not supposed to propose things that will affect the book's appeal because it sucks? Also, for me the book is always gonna be 50/50: doing extended? get the book. if not, pain brand.

[Siegurt]

...How relevant do you think this "buff" is?

Very?

Go ahead and play a ranged warper necro. Maybe a DE would be able to afford training a variety of skills and have magic to ask corpses, animate them then portal projectiles over it. You sure can do it, but it is not as effective as just playing a regular necro, so how is it a buff? This is the exact opposite of flexibility, this requires so many things in order to work properly(decent ranged weapon, ammo, transloc book).

Pp takes a pretty minimal amount of xp, and I nearly always have a few points in translocations in any case, blink is damn good, if you are using a ranged weapon as your primary killdudes and have access to it, you should probably get pp online

Thats necronomicon's book problem, am i not supposed to propose things that will affect the book's appeal because it sucks? Also, for me the book is always gonna be 50/50: doing extended? get the book. if not, pain brand.

I only mention it because you mentioned it as a drawback for selecting the pain brand.

Personally, i think the more important issue is really that it looks like a buff to ranged combat, rather than the possibility of it being a buff to kiku worshipers

[dynast]

Personally, i think the more important issue is really that it looks like a buff to ranged combat, rather than the possibility of it being a buff to kiku worshipers

Its a buff for ranged combat but not for kiku, except the only way to achieve said buff is by worshipping him.