Finite Pan (was: Ugh Pandemonium is going on forever)

[goodcoolguy]

We all wait in joyful hope for the coming of finite pan.

[BabyRage]

We all wait in joyful hope for the coming of finite pan.

Why would you want that? That's the whole thing about Pan, that it's infinite and we have to search for runes. It would be boring otherwise. If anything, I'd like to see more unique levels or at least more unique "templates" like hellion island and disco pan. Another good thing would be to make demonic rune no longer guaranteed (give each level an equal chance to contain the rune, maybe about 10%), so that player would have to actually search for it.

[goodcoolguy]

We all wait in joyful hope for the coming of finite pan.

Why would you want that? That's the whole thing about Pan, that it's infinite and we have to search for runes. It would be boring otherwise. If anything, I'd like to see more unique levels or at least more unique "templates" like hellion island and disco pan. Another good thing would be to make demonic rune no longer guaranteed (give each level an equal chance to contain the rune, maybe about 10%), so that player would have to actually search for it.

Well, if that's the whole thing about pan, then the whole thing about pan sucks. The only parts of pan that have the potential not to be boring are the named panlords, which you don't have to search for. You just have to generate a potentially very large number of levels to get them.

It's amazing the weird opinions you run into. "Exploring crawl layouts with lots of 3s and 4s in them is fun." New one on me.

[BabyRage]

"Exploring crawl layouts with lots of 3s and 4s in them is fun."

If you want to put it that way, okay. It's fun for me. What's wrong with that?

At least, it's different from the rest of the game (except Abyss) where you just go to bottom floor and pick a rune, without paying any attention.

[Magipi]

At least, it's different from the rest of the game (except Abyss) where you just go to bottom floor and pick a rune, without paying any attention.

But that is what you should be doing in Pan too. If it's not a big one's floor, quickly find a portal and move on.

[BabyRage]

At least, it's different from the rest of the game (except Abyss) where you just go to bottom floor and pick a rune, without paying any attention.

But that is what you should be doing in Pan too. If it's not a big one's floor, quickly find a portal and move on.

Exactly. This is why I wrote:

Another good thing would be to make demonic rune no longer guaranteed (give each level an equal chance to contain the rune, maybe about 10%), so that player would have to actually search for it.

[Magipi]

I don't really get it, are you suggesting that if you miss the demonic rune, it's gone forever? So you miss it by accident, and then you search for it forever in vain? That is one awful idea.

[archaeo]

I'm moving this stuff to CYC, because we don't need to argue about Pan in an Advice thread.

I also thought that elliptic et al. were interested in a ~15 level Pan with the Holy Pan level guaranteed at the end, which sounds like a good deal to me.

[Shard1697]

I'll be "that guy" and quote myself:

torment is not the problem. except in tomb, but tomb would be a problem even without it-tons beefy enemies that spam dangerous summons(and also smite+inflict random effects on death) just naturally leads to really boring, super stairdance heavy gameplay for any character without lv9 spells.

Hells and pan are just too long and boring. Especially pan, since if you get bad RNG the demonic rune might not spawn for a whole lot of floors(or you might not get the themed floor you want for a lot of floors)... I think there are more rune vaults for it now than the last tourny which is when I last 15'd(does this increase chance of it spawning per floor? idk), but it just takes so many floors for it to spawn much of the time. And it's usually not even like I'm having much trouble with the floors-otherwise I wouldn't be able to do so many of them. Not that them being harder would really fix that problem anyhow.

Last tourny, of my 6 15 rune games, the number of floors I had to go through on pan:
34 pan floors
37 pan floors
26 pan floors
24 pan floors
45 pan floors(fuck me this sucked)
27 pan floors
it's just soooo long. even the shortest of these is way, way too long for me, I'm completely sick of pan by the end of it. I don't know if this feeling is universal but I don't even want to do 10 floors of pan, much less 45. it's miserable.

A bunch of people agreed with me then, and I'd hope a bunch of people still do, because it's awful. Going through floor after floor of Pan is basically the #1 thing that keeps me from doing extended.

Make the demonic rune show up on every generic pan floor until you get it, and once you have it, make every subsequent floor be a rune floor until you have them all. Then let further pan floors be infinite random floors for the kind of people who like that sort of thing for some reason

[Shtopit]

I'm moving this stuff to CYC, because we don't need to argue about Pan in an Advice thread.

I also thought that elliptic et al. were interested in a ~15 level Pan with the Holy Pan level guaranteed at the end, which sounds like a good deal to me.

I like it, but give a chance to keep going on indefinitely after that to those who want to.

[TonberryJam]

The solution to every problem ppl have toward "tedium" is simple. Make every floor dangerous and exciting!

As far as how many levels you need on something, that is simple as well. It's controlled by how much xp each mob gives. The idea being how much xp or character levels should this group of monsters offer. And, how many levels should be provided to achieve that considering spawn mechanics.

I think ppl just hate not knowing where the Pan runes will spawn. I mean to get all the other runes....ppl went through probably even more levels...

[Shard1697]

The solution to every problem ppl have toward "tedium" is simple. Make every floor dangerous and exciting!

No, not really. Length still matters, even if I'm being challenged I don't want a game to last that long, let alone 1 part of a game.