[PROPOSAL] Enhanced Stealth options


If it doesn't fit anywhere else, it belongs here. Also, come here if you just need to get hammered.

Halls Hopper

Posts: 59

Joined: Friday, 4th September 2015, 09:22

Post Tuesday, 22nd December 2015, 23:19

[PROPOSAL] Enhanced Stealth options

There are unaware oponents acting randomly highlighted with "?" icon. I would like to see throwing a stone in some tile, and after that - the enemy is still "unaware" but comes to the direction of sound. It has one turn after coming to the strange noise to examine it, afterwards a huge bonus to noticing hidden character is applied. It could be used to stab the monsters in a Metal Gear Solid style, when player had the option to lure enemies by knocking the wall, and not only focusing on Enscrolled Hibernation, Confuse, and Wands of Paralisis, but more subtle and simple methods.

Minor spellcasters could be counted as asleep when the Spellbook is thrown, and they are adjacent to it and they didn't notice anything strange by coming over.

Shoals Surfer

Posts: 280

Joined: Monday, 17th December 2012, 16:04

Post Tuesday, 22nd December 2015, 23:27

Re: [PROPOSAL] Enhanced Stealth options

More importantly; we need a self propelled camera bolt which can be steered across the dungeon and explode in Sigmunds face!
aka: Innameasone and electricaloddity
User avatar

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4478

Joined: Wednesday, 23rd October 2013, 07:56

Post Tuesday, 22nd December 2015, 23:29

Re: [PROPOSAL] Enhanced Stealth options

There was a spell called Projected Noise, and it was removed (in 0.11) for a reason.
DCSS: 97:...MfCj}SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}
FeEE{HOIEMiAE}GrGlHuWrGnWrNaAKBaFi{MiDeMfDe}{DrAKTrAMGhEnGnWz}
{PaBeDjFi}OgAKPaCAGnCjOgCKMfAEAtCKSpCjDEEE{HOSu
Bloat: 17: RaRoPrPh{GuStGnCa}{ArEtZoNb}KiPaAnDrBXDBQOApDaMeAGBiOCNKAsFnFlUs{RoBoNeWi

Halls Hopper

Posts: 59

Joined: Friday, 4th September 2015, 09:22

Post Tuesday, 22nd December 2015, 23:33

Re: [PROPOSAL] Enhanced Stealth options

Maybe that idea should be re-thinked not removed. For example no Rune floor could not be suspectable to that kind of trick, and no undead/demon could be ever dealt in that way.
User avatar

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4478

Joined: Wednesday, 23rd October 2013, 07:56

Post Tuesday, 22nd December 2015, 23:39

Re: [PROPOSAL] Enhanced Stealth options

I don't think the devs want to add level-related special cases like that (ctele and -ctele were already removed).

(Projected Noise was broken for example in Ziggurats.)
DCSS: 97:...MfCj}SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}
FeEE{HOIEMiAE}GrGlHuWrGnWrNaAKBaFi{MiDeMfDe}{DrAKTrAMGhEnGnWz}
{PaBeDjFi}OgAKPaCAGnCjOgCKMfAEAtCKSpCjDEEE{HOSu
Bloat: 17: RaRoPrPh{GuStGnCa}{ArEtZoNb}KiPaAnDrBXDBQOApDaMeAGBiOCNKAsFnFlUs{RoBoNeWi

Shoals Surfer

Posts: 280

Joined: Monday, 17th December 2012, 16:04

Post Tuesday, 22nd December 2015, 23:42

Re: [PROPOSAL] Enhanced Stealth options

Problem is that crawl shouldn't revolve more around stealth, its already very good and almost every species has a good apt for it.
aka: Innameasone and electricaloddity

Halls Hopper

Posts: 59

Joined: Friday, 4th September 2015, 09:22

Post Tuesday, 22nd December 2015, 23:48

Re: [PROPOSAL] Enhanced Stealth options

Maybe, but without set of spells and wands is not that good. Unaware monsters don't happen that often. Plus, investing in stealth costs your investment in more viable otpions. Again, chasing these randomly behaving mobs is not the way I see the sneaky-tricky stabbing character. I would rather have some flavour of classic options to prepare the ambush, at least in the early-mid game.

Also, I think of adding a pathways to some monsters, like going back and forth, or giving them patterns that can be noticed while hidden and away. Understanding the way they move could give you opportunity to try to grab some guarded randart, but if this attempt is failed, no tele would be allowed on certain area, or the randart would be forever gone. Maybe some floors in Ziggurat rewarding this kind of play with umbra all over them? Not only Fire Storm spam in order to success, but clever manuevering.

Failed mission - No reward style of game-building.

Plus - this kind of mechanic could be always ignored by different builds and dealt in a standard, smashing-the-doors style.

Lair Larrikin

Posts: 24

Joined: Monday, 1st August 2011, 01:51

Post Wednesday, 23rd December 2015, 01:19

Re: [PROPOSAL] Enhanced Stealth options

Enish wrote:Maybe, but without set of spells and wands is not that good.


Try using needles

Lair Larrikin

Posts: 23

Joined: Monday, 26th October 2015, 01:53

Post Thursday, 24th December 2015, 18:30

Re: [PROPOSAL] Enhanced Stealth options

The perfect sideline opportunity for my "Totally Original Idea, Do Not Steal" unique proposal!

Solidus, a human assassin found in the Snake Pits sometimes.
He is equipped with three items:
A blowgun with needles of sleeping.
An elec dagger.
A fixedart +1 'hat', "The Box". The Box locks out all of the players auxillary armour slots and their primary body armour slot, and reduces their vision radius to a 5x5 square centered around the player. Nightstalker Demonspawn or the casting of darkness can reduce that further to a 3x3 square. If you use both, the player will not be able to check any changes outside of their own square, while the 3x3 area is still used for monster AI checks with a 50% chance of being skipped. Moving into completely unknown tiles causes noise as you stumble around. Bumping into a completely unknown wall will cause additional noise and reveal the wall tile to the player. Bumping into an enemy in a completely unknown tile will make them aware of you, and they will get an action as they wake up (if applicable). Special case: Felids who pick up the box, equip it to an 'non existant' slot automatically. They fits, so they sits.

Solidus also gets an aux attack that causes minor asphyxiation in melee combat.

Digressing back to the actual material in the thread:
Crawl is a fairly open path in terms of how you develop your character as a player.
However, from a designer standpoint, a Metal Gear stealth style game is a fairly different genre of game from dungeon-kill-adventure; integrating the fun aspects of Metal Gear Stealth doesn't necessarily work with dungeon-kill-adventure games.
Part of the issue is how to determine when/where these aspects come in.

Do we write vaults to have specific patrol paths on enemies?
Is it random floors of Ziggurats we make umbra covered or 'stealth execution' challenges?
Does player choice impact which type of Ziggurats they encounter?
Should stealth still be a random check based on XP invested if we want the player to sit and observe patrol paths or patterns for the player to observe and utilize to their advantage?

I could see a major fork creating a metal-gear stealth style dungeon crawler, but it would require radically different implementation and design direction from the currently existing game. As it currently exists, almost all 'skills' of the character advance primarily by numerics, and the number of opportunities for player to demonstrate intricate understanding of the mechanics related to a particular skill (stealth, long blades, etc) are at a fairly coarse level.
The player does not need to grasp how to manuver the character's body quietly and out of the vision of an enemy to be good at stealth, instead the player decides that they want the character to know that sort of information and utilize it when the player has the character train the stealth skill.

Halls Hopper

Posts: 59

Joined: Friday, 4th September 2015, 09:22

Post Saturday, 26th December 2015, 16:34

Re: [PROPOSAL] Enhanced Stealth options

The easier way to change in better direction - is to reduce movement of wandering monsters a bit. I dislike situations when an asassin is trying to chase down totally unaware creature for long time, and the calculation method even takes advantage of it. Each turn a unaware creature *runs* away, even the bigger chance to notice the player, or chance to end the chase in a lair of black mambas wich is carefreely crossed by the horse-like creature.

It's a waste of turns and big annoiance to hunt monsters which has no reason to move at max of it's speed.

Well, also I would like to see races like dragons to trample their way over any lesser races to engage PC in melee. Or highlight the possible conflicts between inhabitants of dungeon, for example orcs and deep elves. Or Angels attacking demons at first place, not ganging up with them to mangle PC with no visible reason to act that way.
User avatar

Barkeep

Posts: 1788

Joined: Saturday, 29th June 2013, 16:52

Post Saturday, 26th December 2015, 17:49

Re: [PROPOSAL] Enhanced Stealth options

Enish wrote:Or highlight the possible conflicts between inhabitants of dungeon, for example orcs and deep elves. Or Angels attacking demons at first place, not ganging up with them to mangle PC with no visible reason to act that way.

There are no conflicts in the dungeon; it's a peaceful utopia where people of many different cultures live together in harmony. The PC is the only one who doesn't fit in.

For this message the author archaeo has received thanks:
duvessa

Halls Hopper

Posts: 59

Joined: Friday, 4th September 2015, 09:22

Post Saturday, 26th December 2015, 19:17

Re: [PROPOSAL] Enhanced Stealth options

Then why's everybody armed?
User avatar

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4478

Joined: Wednesday, 23rd October 2013, 07:56

Post Saturday, 26th December 2015, 20:23

Re: [PROPOSAL] Enhanced Stealth options

Enish wrote:Then why's everybody armed?

They are just prepared to defend their Utopia from outsiders, who every once in a while come to disturb the peace.
DCSS: 97:...MfCj}SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}
FeEE{HOIEMiAE}GrGlHuWrGnWrNaAKBaFi{MiDeMfDe}{DrAKTrAMGhEnGnWz}
{PaBeDjFi}OgAKPaCAGnCjOgCKMfAEAtCKSpCjDEEE{HOSu
Bloat: 17: RaRoPrPh{GuStGnCa}{ArEtZoNb}KiPaAnDrBXDBQOApDaMeAGBiOCNKAsFnFlUs{RoBoNeWi

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 6454

Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06

Post Saturday, 26th December 2015, 22:26

Re: [PROPOSAL] Enhanced Stealth options

Enish wrote:Then why's everybody armed?

The dungeon is in Texas.
Spoiler: show
This high quality signature has been hidden for your protection. To unlock it's secret, send 3 easy payments of $9.99 to me, by way of your nearest theta band or ley line. Complete your transmission by midnight tonight for a special free gift!

For this message the author Siegurt has received thanks: 2
dynast, WingedEspeon

Return to Crazy Yiuf's Corner

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 67 guests

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by ST Software for PTF.