The Tavern

This topic was raised in another thread, and it'd be interesting to get a bit of data on what the actual opinion of the masses appears to be, even if that data may not be wholly representative of the entire population.

POST YOUR FAVOURITE EXTENDED REWORK IDEA BELOW

LICK AND SUBSCRIB PLISS IT HELLS A LOT

like I just said in the other thread:

remove 18 16 floors from the Hells, such that each is 3 floors long
remove exit portals and exit-through-the-abyss portals from pan, and cap it at 15 floors (I like the idea that the final floor is always holy pan)
merge Abyssrun, but remove Abyss:2 to make Abyss 3 floors, and set rune generation and downstair/upstair generation such that Abyss lasts significantly shorter

edit: though just as a point of order, it's a mistake to imagine that CYC readers really serve as a representative sample of Crawl players, and even if we all vote for "yes cut the game right away" it's not particularly meaningful or likely to change much.
edit2: thanks duvessa I'm an idiot

Make Slime; length 4 to match the other Lair Branches.
Three floors is enough for Abyss; few people go below 3 anyways.
Hell Branches can be 3 or 4, unsure which.
Pandemonium IDK? Ziggurat structure would be better than current (gets harder as you go; you can only enter once; unique floors only spawn once, like current.

i'd like an option for "yes, but i'd rather see a cut to literally any other part of the game besides d (and i guess now o) first."

archaeo wrote:
remove 18 floors from the Hells, such that each is 3 floors long

crawl players sure are good at math aren't they

damnit, I knew I got that wrong

like i dont even understand how you got that??? 18 doesn't even divide into 4ths evenly and neither does 17 or 19 so you can't even use the typo defense. same goes for subtracting it from 28 and getting 12. you, archaeo, are a miserable failure and now everybody knows it

at least you know what a median is

duvessa wrote:like i dont even understand how you got that??? 18 doesn't even divide into 4ths evenly and neither does 17 or 19 so you can't even use the typo defense. same goes for subtracting it from 28 and getting 12. you, archaeo, are a miserable failure and now everybody knows it

at least you know what a median is

It's that bit in the middle of the road that keeps people from killing me. See I know it too.

duvessa wrote:like i dont even understand how you got that??? 18 doesn't even divide into 4ths evenly and neither does 17 or 19 so you can't even use the typo defense. same goes for subtracting it from 28 and getting 12. you, archaeo, are a miserable failure and now everybody knows it

at least you know what a median is

like this:

"okay, we want ever level to be 3 short. well every branch in hell has 7 levels, so that's 7*3 = 21 total levels. but we only want 3, so we wanna solve 7*3 - x = 3, which is 18".

take one of the medians of 18 by moving each finger towards the middle...what do you get? 27.

it's a conspiracy

duvessa wrote:like i dont even understand how you got that???

I think you can guess from "damnit I knew I got that wrong" that I was just flailing at my keyboard, desperate to get my game-changing idea onto the forum and into the hands of the devs, and pounded in the first number that sounded right just in case somebody got their extended reform idea in before mine, thus ruining all my hard work on game design.

but it's sweet that arrhy thinks I did anything as complicated as solve for x, thanks buddy.

IMO hell is fine because you just dive it. The problem is pan because it can take forever to get the runes to spawn.

WingedEspeon wrote:IMO hell is fine because you just dive it. The problem is pan because it can take forever to get the runes to spawn.

Yeah but by the same token since you just dive hell there's basically no reason to keep any of the content but the last floor.

Imho Abyss is fine though. The turncounts for my last 7 characters to get the abyssal rune (from enter the Abyss to exit the Abyss) were 856, 1640, 1830, 1243, 4062, 4906, 926. All got the rune from A:3. Obviously there is a lot of variation, and I wouldn't mind if there was a guarantee that once you've discovered x tiles on A:3 / y tiles on A:4 / z tiles on A:5, the rune is generated.

Sprucery wrote:I wouldn't mind if there was a guarantee that once you've discovered x tiles on A:3 / y tiles on A:4 / z tiles on A:5, the rune is generated.

Or rather than just generating the rune, the Abyss could just be made to become increasingly likely to drop the player in a rune vault after so many explored tiles/turns. One of my favorite Abyss experiences was getting dropped into hangedman_abyss_rune_macabre_mess while looking for the rune.

Oh, that certainly is fun. I got dropped into that vault with spatial maelstroms eating at walls.

Literally into it, mind. I was in the glass and had to wait for them to dig their way to me.

WingedEspeon wrote:IMO hell is fine because you just dive it.

Funny, I feel this way about slime. Slime level generation puts the staircases so close together that it's quick and easy to get down. I've had several hell floors where stairs are all stuck in one place, far far away...So I'd rather shorten hell and leave slime alone, although if slime really had to go to 4 that would be okay, as long as it isn't made into 2 floors.

tasonir wrote:
WingedEspeon wrote:IMO hell is fine because you just dive it.

Funny, I feel this way about slime. Slime level generation puts the staircases so close together that it's quick and easy to get down. I've had several hell floors where stairs are all stuck in one place, far far away...So I'd rather shorten hell and leave slime alone, although if slime really had to go to 4 that would be okay, as long as it isn't made into 2 floors.

IMO slime is fine too. Also this is about extended so why are we discussing slime?

Croases wrote:Oh, that certainly is fun. I got dropped into that vault with spatial maelstroms eating at walls.

Literally into it, mind. I was in the glass and had to wait for them to dig their way to me.

How did you do it? Invisibility? Being trapped with several maelstroms should result in you being teleported away very quickly (alternatively, dead).

archaeo wrote:like I just said in the other thread:
remove 18 16 floors from the Hells, such that each is 3 floors long
remove exit portals and exit-through-the-abyss portals from pan, and cap it at 15 floors (I like the idea that the final floor is always holy pan)
merge Abyssrun, but remove Abyss:2 to make Abyss 3 floors, and set rune generation and downstair/upstair generation such that Abyss lasts significantly shorter
...

I don't mind Hells mostly as they are, but I might like the stairs to be less hide and seek, so the floors could be a touch smaller or something.

Exit portals in Pan would be more palatable (speaking as a very amateur Pan visitor) if they were more frequent and/or somewhat less heavily patrolled.

Making the last floor of Pan the holy level, more likely forces a static style on runners to Pan for the sake of just that floor when the rest of Pan is presumably still random? That would be a double whammy if you also remove exit portals. Denies Pan runners access to holy weapons if they are capable of using them, and smacks them with extra holy if they are undead (on top of any bosses that are still chasing them!) in order to get out? I have to admit it would be challenging, but it feels awfully rigid and scary to me.

As for Abyss, I've so rarely gone to 3, I don't care. I do suspect it can last a touch too long though, from all the reports. Those who are uber equipped for it seem to have an amazing farm fest too? I'm not against stretches of farm/random (hey I enjoyed the 27-floor Dungeon of earlier versions - and similarly I'd rather keep some stretches of openness to try in Abyss, as in Pan), but for me the question is more, will there be some limit too, or can you really just go on forever?

I think that hells have a reason to exist in that they can grind down weak characters' resources. You need to move down 6 floors each time, and if that requires consumables for your character to survive (e.g. poor regeneration), they won't be replaced much due to 1-6 being loot-free. Then again most extended characters are ridiculously strong and have /hw with ?recharging so I suppose this is mostly an edge case, except in speedruns maybe. I don't like Pan's length though, partly because it's easier too.

Brutal daydreams about this, by the way.

The Tavern

EXTENDED POLL THE POLLENING

EXTENDED POLL THE POLLENING

Re: EXTENDED POLL THE POLLENING

Re: EXTENDED POLL THE POLLENING

Re: EXTENDED POLL THE POLLENING

Re: EXTENDED POLL THE POLLENING

Re: EXTENDED POLL THE POLLENING

Re: EXTENDED POLL THE POLLENING

Re: EXTENDED POLL THE POLLENING

Re: EXTENDED POLL THE POLLENING

Re: EXTENDED POLL THE POLLENING

Re: EXTENDED POLL THE POLLENING

Re: EXTENDED POLL THE POLLENING

Re: EXTENDED POLL THE POLLENING

Re: EXTENDED POLL THE POLLENING

Re: EXTENDED POLL THE POLLENING

Re: EXTENDED POLL THE POLLENING

Re: EXTENDED POLL THE POLLENING

Re: EXTENDED POLL THE POLLENING

Re: EXTENDED POLL THE POLLENING

Re: EXTENDED POLL THE POLLENING

Re: EXTENDED POLL THE POLLENING