lab to wizlab

[Pollen_Golem]

Visiting the labyrinth can be a refreshing change of pace from typical Crawl gameplay.
But as expected for designer content, overexposure to something that's the same every time you do it cheapens the experience.
So even players who do not find them tedious-yet-optimal would benefit from them becoming rarer - one among many wizlabs.
Especially since by the time the labyrinth is encountered, the character is not established yet, but is still constantly upgrading gear, learning starter book spells, scroll-identifying potions, and so on, so the break is not as fully appreciated as it would be later in the game.
Also, labyrinth doesn't fit together with the other early, common portals that throw small waves of enemies at you.

Of course wizlabs tend to come later in the game, so the level would have to be made harder by locking you in a cage with multiple berserking minotaurs or whatever would be appropriate.

[kuniqs]

Labyrinth is the one place where any build has a chance to score as long as they have permafood.
Other portals (even Sewer) are very risky.

[Sar]

A Minotaur with good equipment can completely roll over you and unlike with other portals, the only way to escape is guarded by it.

[daggaz]

Had a minotaur once, wielding a randart greatsword, wearing crystal plate armour, spam a TON of summons with some rod he had picked up and proceed to beat me back to the intro screen. Fun times, fun times indeed.

[bcadren]

A Minotaur with good equipment can completely roll over you and unlike with other portals, the only way to escape is guarded by it.

I got killed by one when it spawned with the glaive of the guard. Berserking minotaur is really powerful.

[Pollen_Golem]

How did this end up in CYC?

I looked at the previous lab-related threads and the dev wiki, and didn't see anywhere the simple suggestion of turning the labyrinth into one of the wizlabs. I also addressed the common rebuttals to both removing the lab and keeping the lab as-is. I even mentioned issues neither side brings up, which just gives lab-as-wizlab hidden improvement.

[archaeo]

I looked at the logs, and I guess I moved it, mostly because Gammafunk is already working on reforming labs and the reform won't involve making it into a Wizlab. If you'd like me to move it back to GDD though, I can.

[stoneychips]

I like Lab. As it is, you can sometimes get layouts with mini-vaults (or at least small treasure hordes) and other monsters. And like many optional areas, nothing is forcing you to go in there if you know the minotaur is probably not your speed. It doesn't even have a rune. You can also lure the minotaur out sometimes, or possibly get an open layout where it's wandered away from the loot stash/stairs slightly.

I have the impression it often drops stuff useful for melee characters, anyway (weapons and armor) - which sort of fits the minotaur theme, and more characters already biased toward close combat upon arrival. Although personally I prefer it for the chance of a good rod or evocable item. Hoping that part won't be tossed.

In fact, if anything, I'd go for more Labyrinths here and there, or perhaps a bigger one on deeper levels (with or without the current one?) - rather than huge revamp.

[ydeve]

dismissal is hilarious against the minotaur. It teleports away with half the loot.

[Pollen_Golem]

OK, let's just wait and see what Gammafunk comes up with.

[daggaz]

I like Lab. As it is, you can sometimes get layouts with mini-vaults (or at least small treasure hordes) and other monsters. And like many optional areas, nothing is forcing you to go in there if you know the minotaur is probably not your speed. It doesn't even have a rune. You can also lure the minotaur out sometimes, or possibly get an open layout where it's wandered away from the loot stash/stairs slightly.

I have the impression it often drops stuff useful for melee characters, anyway (weapons and armor) - which sort of fits the minotaur theme, and more characters already biased toward close combat upon arrival. Although personally I prefer it for the chance of a good rod or evocable item. Hoping that part won't be tossed.

In fact, if anything, I'd go for more Labyrinths here and there, or perhaps a bigger one on deeper levels (with or without the current one?) - rather than huge revamp.

I like it for the same reasons, and find running the lab a pleasant change of pace (and also think the minivaults inside are cool). I dont think the maze is at all tedious, but then I like puzzles even if they arent terribly complicated.

The minotaur often picks up the melee stuff because thats how the AI works, but the lab drops plenty of caster related gear. Books, jewelry, robes, rods, weapons, armour: its usually a good bet for pretty much any build.