Buff resistance


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Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 08:34

Buff resistance

Buff resistance.
ex.
In normal 3runes game, rC is almost useless.
Buff cold resistance.

Sar

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Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 08:41

Re: Buff resistance

Why?

Edit: I welcome rC in any game, at least as a ring I can switch to. A lot of mid-endgame enemies have noticeably strong cold attacks. Dragons, giants, liches, other spellcasters. You can win without finding a single rC item, sure. I rather like that - most resistances being a convenience rather then necessity. I do think that player resistances have too many grades, I'd like them to be reduced to one-two pips and made overall more rare. But that's not a big deal.

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Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 08:56

Re: Buff resistance

rF is I believe more important than rC for fireball (unavoidable fire damage).
does not have monster to kill you always without rC in the 3rune game, if you do not have the rF, OoF kill you with certainty.

strong cold attack (cold melee, flash freeze, glaciate) is rare, it can be avoided easily.
azure jelly and ice fiend is very rare in non-specific branch(only slime or pan or coc. slime and coc is completely lack the fire attack), antaeus and lom lobon is the enemy of 15rune game rune vault.

strong fire attack(fireball)is common, it is difficult to avoid.
fire giant is common, OoF has been guaranteed by the zot:5.

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Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 12:44

Re: Buff resistance

Dont you mean, make more monsters with cold attacks? There are already plenty, rC is anything but useless. Even just in the depths, you can definitely feel the difference between no pips and one or two in rC. And if you go for 15 runes you are definitely going to have to suit up.

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Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 15:00

Re: Buff resistance

radinms wrote:In normal 3runes game, rC is almost useless.


You mispelled Zot. Fire resistance is predominant because OOFs are the toughest predominant enemies in zot, liches are too squishy and usually are busy using other spells or getting stuck into nets. So basically, to buff cold resistance is to add Orb of Ice to zot, which i dont consider a good idea.
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Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 15:02

Re: Buff resistance

Pity the melee dude without rC who has to fight a pack of simulacra.
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Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 15:29

Re: Buff resistance

Good thing they're usually slower than you so you almost never have to!

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Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 16:17

Re: Buff resistance

There are two pretty significant fallacies being made here:

Fallacy 1) rC is either essential or useless.

It's certainly not impossible to complete a game successfully without any source of resist cold, though doing so will definitely make some situations a lot more dangerous than they'd be otherwise. Ice Dragons, Frost Giants, Azure Jellies, a summoned Ice Fiend, White Draconians, Ancient Liches with the right spellset... there are definitely cold threats late-game, and even earlier in the game, having a source can be helpful, it just might be the difference between having to retreat from a fight or use a consumable, instead of the difference between being able to complete the game or not.

Fallacy 2) rC SHOULD be JUST as important and essential to victory in a 3-rune game as rF is.

... Why? There's no reason for each resistance to be just as important as the other. If we're talking about resistances that are underwhelming in 3-runers, this thread should be about negative energy resistance then... or what about rPois? It's nice in Snake and Spider particularly, but you don't NEED them there, and you'll barely notice missing them anywhere else. Resistances are most certainly not created equal, and I think that making them essentially the same wouldn't be any more interesting. Maybe less so! And I don't think that making certain loot drops and equipment *required* for progression would make the game better. In fact, that's pretty much the opposite.

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Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 18:12

Re: Buff resistance

The reason eliteplayers value resistances so little isn't that resistances don't reduce their element's damage enough. It's that significant sources of that damage are uncommon in the first place. rPois reduces poison damage by 66%, but it's still borderline worthless outside of snake because the only noticeable poison damage in the game comes from adders, venom bolt, and poison arrow. Adder poison damage is before you actually have a choice whether to have rPois or not, and venom bolt and poison arrow are still pretty lame without rPois (nobody cares about deep elf annihilator poison arrow). It's the same with rElec, it just gets ignored because unless you want to cast one of the spells that does elec damage to yourself, the only time you'll care about it is finding Nikola (who appears a maximum of once per game and is easily walked away from) or an electric golem (which only appears in zot and is easily destroyed or avoided by then even without rElec).
People pretty much only care about rF because of fireball, since it has disproportionately high damage for a monster spell, and because of orbs of fire in zot, since they have the highest hd and defense out of all the monsters in the game that meaningfully exist, plus fireball. You won't actually encounter a monster that has a cold attack with high range that ignores EV and does more damage than bolt of cold, so you don't care about rC very much.

The effect of AC, EV, and SH on the damage affected by them is much smaller, but they get chosen over resistance equipment every time (except for SH), because they actually do something to the majority of damage, and crawl allows you to swap or quaff resistance potions for the rare occasions a resistance is actually relevant.

And don't bring up MR, that's not a resistance.

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Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 18:28

Re: Buff resistance

I was mindlessly tabbing thru the vaults while messing around with a Mi of Gozag, and an Ice Giant killed me with bolt of cold. Now I'll never know what was in those shops, but I'll bet there was some rC on sale.

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Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 18:39

Re: Buff resistance

Here is one player that values resistances a lot. I don't want to go into most ice caves or fight Fannar or get surrounded by simulacra without rC+. You can't always run away from simulacra, especially if they appear around you because a necromancer made them. The one time I died in zot that wasn't zot:5, a poison cloud was a major factor and I lacked rPois. I have died 86 times while lethally poisoned, and 32 times to poison.

If pressed, I can do without rC+ or rPois. But I really don't want to. It means I have to be a lot more careful about those damage types than otherwise.
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Sar

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Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 18:48

Re: Buff resistance

Simulacrum (and Animate Dead) were removed from monsters because they were "too weak" (what).

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Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 20:29

Re: Buff resistance

Well being suddenly surrounded by simulacra was certainly bad news, but you could escape from that quite easily almost always, and then you only had slow monsters to kill from afar
Simulacra
Edit: simulaca in ice cave are quite different as you have not infinite space to run, and sometimes they ambush right next the entrance.
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Sar

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Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 20:41

Re: Buff resistance

nago wrote:being suddenly surrounded by simulacra was certainly bad news

"Bad news" is more than what can be said about most monster spells at the stage of the game where simulacrum-casters appear!

AD was obviously much less threatening, but it could block your retreat, and I'm generally a sucker for monsters using such spells (not a good reason to keep them, yes).

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Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 21:15

Re: Buff resistance

duvessa wrote:And don't bring up MR, that's not a resistance.

Are we going to start calling it "Hex EV" now? In any case, nice to see you spell out the reasoning behind your claims, and you're right, most resists aren't that important. I tend to overvalue them somewhat because I like complete safety/repeatedly tabbing rather than swapping things, it speeds up the game. But if you're playing carefully I think about one pip rF/MR is all most characters would really "need". I still certainly "want" a lot more, though.

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Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 22:11

Re: Buff resistance

Sar wrote:
nago wrote:being suddenly surrounded by simulacra was certainly bad news

"Bad news" is more than what can be said about most monster spells at the stage of the game where simulacrum-casters appear!


Mmm yes that's true, at least excluding aliches and uniques who tend to be worse news :P Maybe simulacrum was worth to be saved after all...
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Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 23:20

Re: Buff resistance

Cold resist isn't useless. The first rank of resist is 50% reduction in damage. This will help you not take a 70+ from a random bolt of cold.
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Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 23:34

Re: Buff resistance

buff resistance is what mummies have

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Post Thursday, 23rd July 2015, 00:58

Re: Buff resistance

duvessa wrote:buff resistance is what mummies have

It got nerfed though, they gain stats on level up now.
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Post Thursday, 30th July 2015, 03:18

Re: Buff resistance

rF being better i swhat balances FDA and IDA (You can get both about equaly as easily, rarity is what balances PDA). Without the supiriority of rF, FDA would need buffs.
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Halls Hopper

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Post Thursday, 30th July 2015, 20:48

Re: Buff resistance

Orb of fire is still the core issue here. It's the only reason that makes rF a must in a 3-rune game. Other resistances are nice to have, but they are not necessarily vital. This is how it should be in my opinion.

The game needs more unpredictable monsters instead of stuff that relies on one element and brute force. Ancient lich is a good example of a dangerous and unpredictable enemy. They are interesting to fight against.

However, I'm aware of the fact that if you put too much unpredictable stuff in the same place, the game becomes quite frustrating. Enchanted forest was a nice example of a place like this: it was full spellcasting and crowd controlling enemies which made the whole branch really annoying. The monsters worked a lot better after they were separated to different branches.

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Post Friday, 31st July 2015, 06:24

Re: Buff resistance

What if Orbs came in Fire and Ice versions, but neither had a resistance pip of the opposite element?
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