Added Abilities for Classes


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Temple Termagant

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Joined: Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 14:49

Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 15:04

Added Abilities for Classes

I have been thinking how to make the choosing of a class more accessible and dynamic to more possible variety of species. As well as making class more without making the game too easy.

give each class, fighter, Assassin, etc. a random innate for the class from a list of three innate or mutations available to the specific class.

for example: a fighter would have three permanent innate upgrades at levels 5,10, and 15. The three possible abilities could be str, hp, or armour.

An monk could have possible claw hands, dex, or str.

Elementalists random resistances and int.

A wanderer would have random from all classes

I don't think this would unbalance the game and give some marginal species with some classes enough boost to actually succeed in a marginal class for them.

what could it hurt for a fighter to have 10% hp, +2 str and +2 armour as an innate ability? Your thoughts?

Corinon

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Berder

Crypt Cleanser

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Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 15:08

Re: Added Abilities for Classes

+10 HP is not at all marginal. And having background not mattering a lot in the long run is by design, so I see this as having null chance of getting any traction.

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TeshiAlair, WingedEspeon

Temple Termagant

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Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 15:25

Re: Added Abilities for Classes

le_nerd wrote:+10 HP is not at all marginal. And having background not mattering a lot in the long run is by design, so I see this as having null chance of getting any traction.

There may be a way to bring some sort of additional innate to classes to make it a bit more interesting. some types of innates, str. dex. int.

Crypt Cleanser

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Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 15:41

Re: Added Abilities for Classes

Background already have those, different stats for the different backgrounds. Most obvious in berserker/wizard, min/maxed strength/intelligence.

Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 15:42

Re: Added Abilities for Classes

There's a common consensus that the midgame is too long and boring. It's my belief that this is because through the midgame you fight exactly the same way, over and over and over, and your character's basic playstyle doesn't change much. If you got xl-based upgrades from your class, that significantly changed how you fight (maybe with both upsides and downsides), then that could break the monotony as effectively as shortening the midgame. It would also make the different classes more interestingly different for parts of the game beyond the early game.
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Corinon, KittenInMyCerealz, TeshiAlair

Shoals Surfer

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Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 15:58

Re: Added Abilities for Classes

Your suggestion makes crawl backgrounds into crawl races. Think of backgrounds more like "starting kits"--they matter a lot at the beginning of the game, but you can change the course of the character's development depending on floor drops. Some backgrounds specifically force you to do this (VM, Ar, As, and really any book background unless you take Veh or Sif). Races, in contrast, matter over the course of the entire game through stat growth, aptitudes, and permanent abilities.*

The current design of backgrounds is intentional. One of the strengths of crawl is that you are encouraged to adapt your character to what you find and not be tied to your starting choices.


* There are some exceptions of course, like Na poison spitting, which is designed to help a race that has a tough early game.

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Sar

Temple Termagant

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Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 16:12

Re: Added Abilities for Classes

This would actually make classes more distinct, not the same. a mage who can possibly get int, magic capacity and sense monster would be different from an elementalist who get resistance to his element, int and breath of the element, randomized of course from the choice of three as you upgrade. you may get all three resistances or all int. otherwise the mage class with the right mutations and randarts can still change to be a summoner, etc. This could make it more distinct.

The same with fighter classes, you can turn an assassin into a fighter with the right randart finds and bene mutations. giving the classes more distinctness is not bad, I love DC and have played it for years, might be helpful to make it more exciting.

Vestibule Violator

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Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 16:17

Re: Added Abilities for Classes

I know it's a matter of semantics, but... I think this conversation would be greatly informed by using the word 'Background' instead of 'Class'. Crawl uses the word for a reason.
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Dungeon Master

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Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 16:35

Re: Added Abilities for Classes

You can probably consider this one of the standard "won't do" things, since as has been mentioned, Crawl backgrounds are very much deliberately just starting points.

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Lasty

Temple Termagant

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Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 17:00

Re: Added Abilities for Classes

I guess the heading on this forum area is right, come here if you need to get hammered.

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byrel

Vestibule Violator

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Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 17:02

Re: Added Abilities for Classes

It's not a bad thing to come up with; the problem is a lot of people do and have come up with it, and it really doesn't fit this game well. And it's already been discussed a decent amount.
Usual account: pblur on kelbi

Temple Termagant

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Joined: Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 14:49

Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 17:24

Re: Added Abilities for Classes

Oh well, about as good an idea as a fire orc.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 19:27

Re: Added Abilities for Classes

There's a lot of very good game ideas that aren't very good crawl ideas. Your idea is great and is used in tons of games - you level up to a certain point, and you unlock more bonuses. So common I'd call it a cliche. It's just that crawl has gone in a different direction mostly, and when you do get level up bonuses, they're tied to race in crawl. Some examples: naga get constriction at level 13, DD get rN+ at 14 and mapping upgrades at 9 and 18, draconians mature at 7, etc. Demonspawn mutations are constantly upgrading at random levels.

Don't feel bad that your suggestion isn't likely to go in - about 99% of them don't :)

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Lasty, TeshiAlair

Shoals Surfer

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Post Wednesday, 22nd July 2015, 19:39

Re: Added Abilities for Classes

Oldschool ToME had special skills that were basically activated abilities you had to pay for. They were pretty expensive and extremely situational. If backgrounds really need to be differentiated, do something like that--give them points in an "Ability Skill" that isn't available to everyone from the start, but can be unlocked later. For example, let's say there's a "Bruiser" skill that you can only access when you have at least 15 points in fighting and 15 points in one weapon skill. It only has five levels, and it doesn't do anything until you put all five points into it. You gain an activated ability that increases your maxHP and defenses, but slows your movement and hinders spellcasting. Fighters could start with points in the "Bruiser" skill and train it without meeting the normal prerequisites. I wouldn't approve of this change, but it's food for thought.

(Note: ToME's abilities were nothing like that. It was just an example of how to implement unique starting skills.)

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