The Tavern

I'm sure we all know and love Nethack, and there's nothing more lovable in Nethack than the fair form of a non-cancelled incubus. But where do all those Nethack incubi come from? Obviously, they must be produced in some future version of crawl!

God(dess) Ishtar (nay, make that 1shtar, to keep it on the help menu):

Ishtar teaches that the world is made for pleasure, and devotees should experience every variety of pleasure. Ishtar expects followers to experiment with a wide range of dungeon inhabitants, learning the hidden secrets that bring each one to their own special climax. In the process, followers gain unique powers to soothe and tame the savage beast, until they can roam the dungeons not as enemies, but as beloved masters and mistresses.

Ishtar grants devoted followers the ability to perform a special service for any living or demonic creature, which renders it non-hostile. This involves some exercise, causing a moderate increase in hunger. However, before receiving the power to perform this service for any particular variety of creature, the follower must first undergo an exploratory learning ritual with one of its kind that requires five uninterrupted moves. As this first creature will remain hostile until the ritual is successful, this is perhaps best done when the creature is under the influence of confusion, paralysis, sleep, or petrification. Completing these rituals with new creatures grants the follower an increase in piety.

Particularly devoted followers may also perform a public spectacle that captivates all creatures within view. To perform this spectacle a special form of metal column is best, but an ordinary polearm may be fixed in the ground as a prop if need be. Once this spectacle is begun, all living or demonic creatures in view will be rendered non-hostile. However, when the spectacle is complete the follower will be left fully undressed.

This is like the spider rape god proposal, only without spiders!

I tried searching spider rape god but the only result I got was your comment, so do tell. Ishtar is listening...

https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5383

The spider god proposal is sort of interesting. I don't really see rape as a predominant feature of it, more a sidetrack. Of course, incubi don't *rape* people, but are merely irresistible ... or failing that, use a frat boy's standard of consent. (Don't blame me ... incubi have *always* liked to do it while you're asleep).

But the idea that the spider god permanently changes the player's form does invite a similar feature here - maybe high level Ishtar followers start getting the bat-wings from the D&D version of incubi, though personally I think they never looked cute enough to seem right.

wanted by whom

Um, that is definitely, absolutely 100% literally rape.

I always liked this picture though because it looks like the incubus was straight up taking a dump on the woman's crotch but then the demon horse walked in on them and is like "what the hell, dude"

10/10, would play as a performance artist with wardrobe malfunction.

how vulgar, I'm sure OP did not mean anything like that!

personally I interpreted the followers of Ishtar as travelling chiropractors/performance artists

That's a nightmare, hag, or whatever it was called at that time, depiction of what would be called sleep paralysis now... I guess technically it is some what related to incubus experiences.
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Oh, well that's fine then.

v Oh yes!

Aren't you excited to do the sprites for altar and ability icons?

OK, that spider not-rape god is amazingly cool. Especially now that there is no memorization penalty for spells. The whole rape thing could be handily avoided by the design changes mentioned, or by flavor-changing it into a face-hugger-esque parasitism. (Which was originally designed to evoke rape fears in the audience (especially men) but... the whole point is a horrific god. And borrowing more directly from established horror further divorces it from real-life problems.)

Anyhow, I'd play that. It sounds very challengey, but fun.

And to get back on topic... I guess Ishtar would be one more reason to play tiles? And believe me, there are many things more lovable in Nethack than sex grinding. Like, you hunt down your partner to seduce you repeatedly, until she's tired of seducing you and just tries stabbing you in the gut instead. No fun at all. It's amazing how many things in Nethack seem explicitly designed to be mechanically annoying.

I'm far from a nethack expert, but I think the intention is that really good outcomes should be hard to get, because they're so powerful. The expectation is that you'd only get it one or two out of dozens in the game, or have to deal with not having any. But the reality is that as long as there's no really bad and unavoidable downside, players would rather just repeatedly grind the mechanic until they happen to get "lucky" and finally get the effect.

That or they write a tool which simulates taking the same turn with thousands of different RNG states to do it for them

Well, it was a fun game of Nethack when I played an Elf and found a sink on D:1. When the dishwasher finally got a severe headache I was XL 12. To my surprise, I won the game.

Well, the thing is they aren't hard to get. The chances of a good outcome is something like (Int+Chr+1)/35, which is not hard to get over 50%. Most negative effects are the inverse of a positive effect (or slightly weaker than the inverse of a positive) so being over 50% chance of good things happening means you should grind it for the next 5k turns.

In Nethack, you tend to get a lot of good outcomes when you keep teleporting out of a shop with an arrow or something, killing Keystone Kops on your chaotic altar, summoning up scads of random demons with them, and then running around the dungeon chatting with every lovely incubus/succubus you meet.

The worst things about the mechanic are:

* For some strange reason they think you only want one sex of them

* the #force command doesn't work on them.

Classy dude

melpomene

Chicken: rape jokes are not welcome here.

While I grant you rape jokes are tasteless in general... when you're discussing a monster that CAN RAPE YOU in game, without you having any say about it if you fail a Con+Wis check, I'm not sure rape jokes with that monster as the target are out of place. At least not if joking about Nethack (or folklore for that matter) Succubi and Incubi is considered acceptable.

Edit: Especially in a joke thread which is devoted to a RAPE god. Like, the whole thread is a rape and objectification joke.

Hey, hey, hey, this isn't a thread about Ixhuachatetl!

No, that was a horror themed god, with a lot of details (including one which is insect rape). This is a sexual objectification and rape themed god, which is entirely a joke. I like the first better.

Yeah, this is an awful thread. I thought about shutting it down, but was on the fence about it.

Well... it's at least well advertised. People aren't going to stumble onto something offensive here by accident. Though I could see an argument for shutting the thread down, it's probably the 'best' format to make such jokes.

well the picture I posted isn't awful

How do those horned wings even work? It looks like if she flapped them she'd just stab herself in the tits.

they're vestigal

Isn't this just elyvilon?

Maybe the best thing about Nethack was it dated back to a time when people were more interested in writing games to be entertaining than to be politically correct.

Not everybody can hold onto their twelve-year-old sense of humor as they get older. Once you reach a certain level of maturity, rape jokes stop being funny and the people who don't stop telling them start looking more and more like sad man-children. I am happy to have outgrown that.

Oh please, anything can be funny told well enough. Norm Macdonald was consoling Artie Lange once when a critic said years ago that he had `all the charm of a date rapist.` Norm told him `That's fucking great! A date rapist has to have way more charm than a regular rapist.` That is funny at any age/maturity

Can we just get this thread locked already?

edit: OK, I guess twelwe can make any thread better, but still

I'm locking this thread because I personally disagree with it and because the popularity of people of wheals and twelwe really gets to me.