ANOTHER nerf to casters

[pickled_heretic]

At this point removing C'Tele is actually a big buff to serious casters, since they're the ones likely to be able to cast C'Blink. And C'Blink+apportation can now get you any rune in a handful of turns in exchange for glow. Take Dith, and use your shadow form as well, and... every rune level is basically free.

The orb run is harder, and speed runs are harder, but casters are easier.

Nerfing or removing something specific to one playstyle is not a buff to other playstyles.

[byrel]

Nerfing or removing something specific to one playstyle is not a buff to other playstyles.

Right, but part of removing C'Tele was removing -C'Tele. Which means controlled blinks are now ALWAYS precisely controlled (except when carrying the orb.) No semi-controlled blinks anymore. That makes the change a nerf to Blink, but a buff to C'Blink, because you have control in Zot:5, tomb, hells, etc.

[byrel]

This is probably the funniest post I've ever read on here, damn.

I don't know... every time I play Zin I'm like, "Another Vitalization! five more and I'll have generated an extra fruit! Soooo glad I went Zin."

(Edit)More seriously, numbers:
One vitalization will get you:
One more summoned ice beast. (assuming no hunger reduction)
1/6th of a fruit.
5% of a meat ration.
Two!! fireballs with 15 int and 15 spellcasting
One Bolt of Fire with 20 int and 18 spellcasting.
Half a firestorm with 25 int and 20 spellcating

Or nothing.

[Berder]

Vit gave 250 nutrition, 30% of a fruit. If you use it 80 times in a game that's 4 meat rations. More importantly Vit was always available as a backup nutrition source, on a god that does often leave you starving in certain parts of the game. It was also enough to take you out of starving in combat, like eating a fruit if you don't have a fruit or don't want to eat one.

[Rast]

invisibility nerf

What's that?

The chance of enemies waking up while you're invisible was greatly increased. With the result: you usually can't invis stab a crowd anymore without them waking up midway through.

Isn't that more of a stabber nerf than a caster nerf?

[Berder]

Isn't that more of a stabber nerf than a caster nerf?

Yes, and invisibility is also a spell.

I'm not a fan of stabber nerfs either. Stabbers are interesting in their own way.

[byrel]

Vit gave 250 nutrition, 30% of a fruit.

LearnDB was silent on this, so I was going with badwiki: http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Food#Nutrit ... food_items
Which claims fruit give 1500 nutrition.

[Berder]

Vit gave 250 nutrition, 30% of a fruit.

LearnDB was silent on this, so I was going with badwiki: http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Food#Nutrit ... food_items
Which claims fruit give 1500 nutrition.

According to https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/de3 ... temprop.cc I see fruit 850.

[twelwe]

Sultanas have taken me out of starving once or twice, please bring them back

[duvessa]

one time on a dieselrobin the previous guy sacrificed all the food in the game to nemelex before handing me the account, and i had to quaff potions for nutrition to avoid starving on the orb run

[Berder]

Getting back on topic... there were many changes in 0.17 that weakened magic. This particular Zin nutrition change is not one of the larger of them. For the largest, I'd have to point to the early game MP reduction. But the zin change is, indeed, slightly significant for Zin blaster casters or spell-focused summoners.

The significance of the Zin change is not that it is a huge problem by itself, but that it is part of the trend of other negative changes for magic in 0.17.

Mod note: removed pointless record sniping at duvessa, warned poster that posters have been repeatedly asked to stop this behavior.

[Sandman25]

[Last edit performed by a mod] Mod edit: warned this poster that posters have been repeatedly asked to stop player record sniping behavior.

[byrel]

To redirect from the mod wars (I have no clue what too snarky is/should be, and don't really care; if I get warned anywhere but GDD I'll just assume I need to have more content in my posts for the snark to flavor )...

How significant is the early game MP pool reduction? I felt like I had more on Sps, but... Hexes aren't the most pool demanding spells. I know the formula was given in the other thread for current (basically Spc*(1-1.5)+XL-speciesPenalty). How did the old regime go?

[Lasty]

The old mp regime was much more complex, and it got fed into a stepdown function. The long and short of it is that MP increased with Spellcasting and XL very quickly until you hit around 20-ish mp, and then the rate of increase started to decrease quickly. Racial bonuses and mutations were applied before reductions, so they pretty much never actually gave you the +x% mp they promised.

[byrel]

Ahh... so at around level 8, + Spc 8 or some such, you end up hitting the break even point. Seems odd that this would be a huge problem; pre level-8, I doubt you're casting anything above a level 3 spell most of the time. Maybe sticky flame or something.

[Berder]

Changes in 0.17:

• less early game MP
• undead expiration
• can't eat poison chunks
• invisibility nerf
• removal of enslave spell
• removal of flight spell
• removal of control teleport
• removal of singularity

I forgot:

• removal of Abjure

a spell I'm wishing I had now, since aura of abjuration isn't doing much to get rid of hostile demons from Summon Demon. It just doesn't seem to eliminate them nearly fast enough to be effective.

[duvessa]

ice form and statue form nerf

[Sandman25]

It's more like nerf to warriors than to casters, Not many warriors can cast Aura of Abjuration.

[Berder]

It's more like nerf to warriors than to casters, Not many warriors can cast Aura of Abjuration.

Maybe, but my current char is a summoner/earth elementalist/lajatang wielder who is casting Summon Demon and they sometimes arrive hostile, and aura of abjuration doesn't do much to get rid of the hostile ones fast enough. For example, a hostile ice devil chased me halfway across orc:4 while I ran back to the stairs with aura of abjuration up. A couple of shots of Abjuration would probably have taken care of it.

[rockygargoyle]

Finally, some buffs!
http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=co ... 513fb2130c
http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=co ... 6001ba57a5

[bel]

How does aura of abjuration work exactly? I thought it was just a continuous version of abjuration.

[Berder]

Every turn aura of abjuration is active, it reduces the duration of all enemy summons in LOS, but it does this much more slowly than if you were just repeatedly casting Abjuration at the summon.

[bel]

In my experience Aura of Abjuration worked quickly enough. I remember using it in Tomb and Zigs a long time back. Haven't used it recently though.

[Berder]

Maybe it doesn't work on hostile summons you created? Or maybe it's just excessively bad at low power. All I can say for sure is that killing the hostile demons or running from them was much more effective than waiting for the aura to work.

P.S. this same character, KoEE of Sif, is going to have to burn a lot of permafood to do Snake, instead of staying mostly Engorged as I was able to do from eating chunks in the rest of the game. This may be a problem or require me not to channel or swap from my vamp weapon. It's definitely not as nice as it would be if I could eat poison chunks - that would have meant basically unlimited channeling as in other parts of the game thus far.

Observe that so far I've eaten 529 chunks (equivalent of 105 meat rations) and have only 17 meat rations remaining. At this rate I'd run out very soon in chunk-deprived snake. I will definitely have to change my tactics in the absence of chunks.

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.17-a0-1450-g7e755d1 (webtiles) character file.

hyperborean the Cruncher (KoEE)                    Turns: 54616, Time: 05:23:48

Health: 110/110    AC: 10    Str:  8    XL:     18   Next: 3%
Magic:  33/33      EV: 27    Int: 23    God:    Sif Muna [******]
Gold:   2425       SH:  0    Dex: 20    Spells: 11 memorised, 4 levels left

rFire  + . .     SeeInvis +     e - staff of earth
rCold  + . .     Clarity  +     p - +1 robe {rC+}
rNeg   . . .     SustAt   .     (shield restricted)
rPois  .         Gourm    .     X - +2 helmet {SInv}
rElec  .         Spirit   .     (no cloak)
rCorr  .         Warding  .     b - +2 pair of gloves {Dex+3}
rMut   .         Stasis   .     l - +0 pair of boots
MR     +....                    Q - amulet of clarity
Stlth  +++.......               x - ring of protection from fire
                                h - +4 ring of intelligence

@: somewhat resistant to hostile enchantments, fairly stealthy
A: carnivore 3
a: Channel Energy, Forget Spell, Renounce Religion


You are on level 5 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship Sif Muna.
Sif Muna is exalted by your worship.
You are very hungry.

You have visited 5 branches of the dungeon, and seen 31 of its levels.
You have also visited: Labyrinth and Ice Cave.

You have collected 3230 gold pieces.
You have spent 805 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 d - a +0 blowgun
 t - a +2 vampiric lajatang
Missiles
 i - 137 poisoned needles
 Y - 11 throwing nets (quivered)
Armour
 b - a +2 pair of gloves of dexterity (worn)
 l - a +0 pair of boots (worn)
 p - a +1 robe of cold resistance (worn)
 X - a +2 helmet of see invisible (worn)
Magical staves
 c - an uncursed staff of cold
 e - an uncursed staff of earth (weapon)
 n - an uncursed staff of summoning
 u - an uncursed staff of fire
 Z - a staff of poison
Jewellery
 a - a ring of protection from fire
 g - an uncursed amulet of resist corrosion
 h - a +4 ring of intelligence (left hand)
 x - a ring of protection from fire (right hand)
 F - an uncursed ring of teleportation
 M - an uncursed ring of positive energy
 Q - an amulet of clarity (around neck)
Magical devices
 y - a wand of digging (9)
 D - a wand of hasting (1)
 E - a wand of teleportation (6)
 J - a wand of disintegration (15)
 W - a wand of paralysis (9)
Scrolls
 f - a scroll labeled NOMISIOLOUDO
 j - 3 scrolls of fog
 m - a scroll of holy word
 q - 3 scrolls of immolation
 s - 5 scrolls of teleportation
 v - 6 scrolls of magic mapping
 I - 13 scrolls of remove curse
 P - a scroll of summoning
 S - 5 scrolls of recharging
 T - a scroll of fear
 U - 3 scrolls of blinking
 V - 3 scrolls of identify
Potions
 o - a potion of magic
 r - 9 potions of curing
 w - 3 potions of agility
 z - 6 potions of flight
 A - 2 potions of might
 C - 2 potions of haste
 L - a potion of resistance
 N - a potion of cancellation
 R - 11 potions of brilliance
Miscellaneous
 k - a lamp of fire
Comestibles
 G - 2 royal jellies
 H - 17 meat rations
 K - 13 beef jerkies


   Skills:
 + Level 11.2 Fighting
 - Level 14.0 Staves
 + Level 12.3 Dodging
 - Level 2.6 Stealth
 + Level 11.1 Spellcasting
 - Level 5.6 Conjurations
 + Level 3.4 Charms
 + Level 12.4 Summonings
 + Level 4.2 Necromancy
 - Level 0.8 Transmutations
 - Level 10.5 Earth Magic
 - Level 8.7 Invocations


You have 4 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
b - Stone Arrow           Conj/Erth      ######       1%          3    None
c - Lee's Rapid Deconstr  Erth           ######....   1%          5    ####...
d - Aura of Abjuration    Summ           ######....   1%          5    ####...
e - Stoneskin             Trmt/Erth      ######..     1%          2    None
f - Apportation           Tloc           ##........   6%          1    None
g - Summon Demon          Summ           ######....   1%          5    ####...
h - Animate Skeleton      Necr           N/A          1%          1    None
i - Passwall              Trmt/Erth      ######....   1%          3    None
j - Shadow Creatures      Summ           N/A          1%          5    ####...
k - Shroud of Golubria    Chrm/Tloc      ###.......   4%          2    None
r - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      ####......   3%          3    None


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (0/1) D:7            Lair (8/8) D:10
 Shoals (3/4) Lair:4        Snake (1/4) Lair:5        Slime (0/6) Lair:6
    Orc (4/4) D:12            Elf (0/3) Orc:3        Vaults (0/5) D:13
 Depths (0/5) D:15       

Altars:
Elyvilon
Gozag
Qazlal
Ru
Sif Muna
Vehumet
Xom
Zin
The Shining One
Beogh

Shops:
D:12 *   Orc:4 (%:%

Portals:
Pandemonium: Orc:4

Annotations:
D:3 jerkstore's ghost, average GrBe
D:7 centaur fighter ghost, omnirizon's ghost, experienced CeGl
D:10 bees
D:12 book of fire, regen
D:14 ood
Orc:4 Dynast's ghost, powerful CeGl


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are small and have problems with some larger weapons.
You are carnivorous and can eat meat at any time.


Message History

Unknown command.
Your naga sharpshooter dissolves into shadows!
Your naga mage gestures at the naga while chanting.
The poison arrow hits the naga. The naga partially resists.
The naga is poisoned. Your naga mage constricts the naga.
The naga hits your naga mage with a dire flail!
The naga barely misses your naga mage.
Your naga mage spits poison at the naga.
The splash of poison hits the naga. Your naga mage constricts the naga.
Unknown command.
Your naga mage hits the naga with a mace!
The naga dies!
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Casting: Shadow Creatures
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Your skin crawls. You feel sick.
Unknown command.
Your naga dissolves into shadows!
You see here 4 arrows.
You swap places.
You see here an arrow.
Unknown command.
You closely miss the naga.
You completely miss the naga. You feel sick.
You are no longer poisoned.
Your chaos spawn hits the naga. The naga is engulfed in flames!
The naga spits poison at you.
The splash of poison misses you.
You barely miss the naga.
The naga is moderately wounded.
Your chaos spawn hits the naga!
The naga hits your chaos spawn with a war axe.
The naga misses you.
You hit the naga.
You kill the naga!
Unknown command.
What do you say?
 t - Shout!
Orders for allies: a - Attack new target.   p - Attack previous target.
                   r - Retreat!             s - Stop attacking.
                   w - Wait here.           f - Follow me.
 Anything else - Stay silent.
Gang up on whom?
Press: ? - help, Dir - move target cursor, f/p - naga sharpshooter
Aim: a naga sharpshooter, wielding a shortbow
Attack!
The naga sharpshooter spits poison at you.
The splash of poison misses you.
Unknown command.
The naga sharpshooter shoots an arrow. The arrow misses you.
The arrow hits your naga mage!!
Things that are here:
a war axe; a robe; a naga corpse
Unknown command.
Your chaos spawn hits the naga sharpshooter but does no damage.
The naga sharpshooter casts a spell.
The naga sharpshooter magically shoots an arrow.
The arrow hits you but does no damage.
You see here 2 arrows.
Unknown command.
Your chaos spawn misses the naga sharpshooter.
The naga sharpshooter gestures wildly while chanting.
The naga sharpshooter magically shoots an arrow.
The arrow hits you.
Your naga mage casts a spell at the naga sharpshooter.
Your chaos spawn resists with almost no effort.
Unknown command.
You swap places.
The naga sharpshooter casts a spell.
The naga sharpshooter magically shoots an arrow.
The arrow hits you!
You see here 3 arrows.
The naga sharpshooter gestures wildly while chanting.
The naga sharpshooter magically shoots an arrow.
The arrow hits you!
You see here 2 arrows.
Unknown command.
You slice the naga sharpshooter!! You feel better.
The naga sharpshooter is moderately wounded.
Your chaos spawn hits the naga sharpshooter!
Your chaos spawn freezes the naga sharpshooter!
The naga sharpshooter shoots an arrow. The arrow hits you!
You slash the naga sharpshooter!
The naga sharpshooter is severely wounded.
Your skin is crawling a little less now.
Your chaos spawn barely misses the naga sharpshooter.
You slash the naga sharpshooter!
The naga sharpshooter is almost dead.
The naga sharpshooter gestures wildly while chanting.
The naga sharpshooter magically shoots an arrow.
The arrow hits you!!
You barely miss the naga sharpshooter.
The naga sharpshooter is almost dead.
Your naga mage gestures at the naga sharpshooter while chanting.
Your chaos spawn resists with almost no effort.
Your chaos spawn gores the naga sharpshooter!
The naga sharpshooter dies!
Items here: ( )))) [ †
Unknown command.
Casting: Regeneration
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
You attempt to give life to the dead...
Before your eyes, flesh is ripped from the corpse!
The dead are slithering!
Items here: % ( ))
5 inedible chunks of flesh; a shortbow; an uncursed dire flail; 6 arrows
You swap places.
You see here 3 arrows.
You swap places.
Your skin stops crawling.
Items here: )) [ †
an uncursed trident; a war axe; a robe; a naga corpse
Unknown command.
Casting: Animate Skeleton
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
You attempt to give life to the dead...
Before your eyes, flesh is ripped from the corpse!
The dead are slithering!
Things that are here:
6 inedible chunks of flesh; an uncursed trident
You see here 2 arrows.
You see here 4 arrows.
Casting: Animate Skeleton
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Your skin crawls.
You start resting.
Your naga mage is no longer moving quickly.
Your skin is crawling a little less now.
Your naga mage gestures wildly while chanting.
Your naga mage seems to speed up.
Your chaos spawn degenerates into a cloud of primal chaos!
Your skin stops crawling.
Unknown command.
Casting: Regeneration
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Your skin crawls.
You start resting.
Your naga mage dissolves into shadows!
Your skin is crawling a little less now.
You are feeling hungry.
Your skin stops crawling.
Magic restored.
Found a short glowing staff.
HP restored.
You swap places.
You swap places.
H - 17 meat rations (gained 1)
Your naga skeleton crumbles into dust!
Things that are here:
a war axe; a robe
You are feeling very hungry.
You see here an arrow.
Done exploring.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Search for what [Enter for "snake", or ? for help]? staf
Things that are here:
a mace of holy wrath; an uncursed shortbow
Things that are here:
a scimitar of venom; a robe; a hand axe
Items here: ( ) [[
a whip; a robe; a large shield; 13 arrows
You see here 2 arrows.
You see here a short glowing staff.
Unknown command.
B - a short glowing staff
Wield which item (- for none, * to show all)? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Really unwield t - a +2 vampiric lajatang?
You feel the dreadful sensation subside.
B - an uncursed staff of air (weapon)
You are now empty-handed. You drop an uncursed staff of air.
Wield which item (- for none, * to show all)? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Okay, then.
Unknown command.
Wield which item (- for none, * to show all)? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
e - an uncursed staff of earth (weapon)
Done exploring.
Done exploring.
Done exploring.
Unknown command.
You see here an uncursed staff of air.
(D) Dungeon        (T) Temple         (L) Lair           (A) Shoals         
(P) Snake Pit      (M) Slime Pits     (O) Orcish Mines   (E) Elven Halls   
(V) Vaults         (U) Depths         
Where to? (Enter - Snake:1 @ (x,y), ? - help)
What level of the Lair of Beasts? (default 5, ? - help)
There is a staircase back to the Lair, spattered with blood here.
You climb upwards. Welcome back to the Lair of Beasts!
There is a staircase to the Snake Pit here.
Unknown command.
You see here a mace.
There is an open door here.
Done exploring.
Done exploring.
Unknown command.
Saving game... please wait.
Welcome back, hyperborean the Kobold Earth Elementalist.
Sif Muna whispers: I know many secrets...
Press ? for a list of commands and other information.

....#   ###.........## #Z#P♣♣
...##   #P.........##  ##Z..♣
..Z##  ##..........# ####..♣♣♣♣♣♣
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..###...............#.#....♣ ♣...
.....P..##.........##......♣♣♣..#
....P....#.........'.......>♣♣..#
..+...#..##........#.###...♣♣♣..#
..#.####.####...@..### #...♣ ♣..#
...##≈≈≈.≈P.##.'##P#   ###.♣♣♣..#
..P#P≈♣≈.P..≈##.####     ##.♣♣..#
.P##≈P♣♣.♣♣≈♣#..P#    #####♣♣♣...
..##≈♣♣...♣≈.#...#    #.#.#♣ ♣...
........>).....###    ##...♣♣♣♣♣♣
...#≈P♣...♣≈P##########.....♣♣  ♣
...#≈.♣♣.♣♣≈♣####.##.##...<..♣♣♣♣
...#≈≈≈≈..PP≈#.......P...........


There are no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  Gastronok (D:12)
  A frost giant (IceCv)
  Snorg (Orc:3)
  A merfolk impaler (Shoals:2)
  7 hydras
  Harold (Orc:3)
  3 centaur warriors (D:15)
  2 dancing weapons (D:13)
  4 death yaks
  2 orc high priests (Orc:4)
  4 skeletal warriors (D:14)
  A soul eater (Orc:4)
  3 sea snakes
  A giant orange brain (D:15)
  2 unseen horrors
  An ice statue (IceCv)
  A wizard (D:14)
  7 hill giants
  Pikel (D:4)
  6 harpies
  A torturous demonspawn (Orc:4)
  5 griffons
  2 mana vipers (Snake:1)
  3 orc sorcerers (Orc:4)
  4 cyclopes
  A wolf spider (D:14)
  4 orc knights
  3 water nymphs (Shoals:2)
  2 manticores
  15 elephants
  2 ugly things (D:15)
  2 gargoyles
  7 black mambas
  5 centaur zombies
  13 spiny frogs
  A naga mage (Snake:1)
  A sixfirhy (Orc:4)
  Psyche (D:11)
  A centaur skeleton (D:14)
  2 fire drakes
  A guardian serpent (shapeshifter) (D:15)
  9 komodo dragons
  2 deep elf priests (D:14)
  9 trolls
  4 merfolk
  3 two-headed ogres
  A troll (shapeshifter) (D:14)
  17 blink frogs
  A wind drake (Shoals:1)
  11 polar bears
  A wind drake (shapeshifter) (D:15)
  10 slime creatures
  A snapping turtle (Shoals:1)
  2 boulder beetles
  A fire drake (shapeshifter) (D:15)
  3 deep elf magi
  64 yaks
  5 water elementals
  3 basilisks
  A soldier ant (D:12)
  8 vampire mosquitoes
  A wyvern (D:15)
  A deep elf fighter (D:14)
  20 wolves
  3 mottled dragons
  17 hippogriffs
  4 wargs
  35 orc warriors
  6 nagas
  15 porcupines
  19 water moccasins
  4 sky beasts
  2 wasps (Lair:4)
  A phantom (D:14)
  2 black bears (D:8)
  3 necrophages
  10 ice beasts
  14 ogres
  18 crocodiles
  A slave (D:4)
  3 eyes of draining
  14 centaurs
  4 big kobolds
  A brain worm (D:14)
  20 giant frogs
  A wyvern zombie (D:12)
  A wyvern skeleton (D:15)
  5 jellies
  2 scorpions
  5 vampire bats (Orc:4)
  3 electric eels
  3 wights (D:14)
  5 crimson imps
  13 killer bees
  3 giant frog zombies
  3 giant frog skeletons
  35 orc priests
  28 orc wizards
  7 hounds
  8 iguanas
  8 worker ants
  20 sheep
  A hound zombie (D:6)
  2 hound skeletons (D:7)
  Robin (D:3)
  4 gnolls (D:4)
  24 adders
  69 river rats
  4 shadow imps
  2 oozes
  2 worms
  An adder skeleton (D:4)
  10 giant geckos
  141 orcs
  6 ball pythons
  A giant cockroach (D:2)
  26 hobgoblins
  9 jackals
  30 kobolds
  A ball python skeleton (D:5)
  17 bats
  A giant gecko skeleton (D:7)
  7 giant newts
  26 goblins
  4 quokkas
  16 rats
  5 fungi
  A plant (Lair:8)
1061 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills)
  Rupert (Lair:7)
  An orc warlord (Orc:2)
  4 merfolk impalers
  A rakshasa (D:15)
  Fannar (D:12)
  2 naga warriors (Snake:1)
  Erolcha (Orc:2)
  2 anacondas (Snake:1)
  The ghost of Spectrina the Grappler, a powerful FoTm of Cheibriados (Lair:1)
  7 merfolk avatars
  A merfolk aquamancer (Shoals:3)
  5 hydras
  8 death yaks
  2 orc high priests (Orc:4)
  3 naga sharpshooters (Snake:1)
  A sun demon (Orc:4)
  4 shock serpents (Snake:1)
  2 naga ritualists (Snake:1)
  6 sea snakes
  8 harpies
  A putrid demonspawn (Orc:4)
  2 orc knights (Orc:4)
  A cyclops (Shoals:2)
  A deep elf conjurer (D:14)
  4 manticores
  5 griffons
  A salamander (Snake:1)
  4 fauns
  3 water nymphs
  4 orc sorcerers (Orc:4)
  3 slime creatures (D:13)
  2 mana vipers
  A siren (Shoals:3)
  5 elephants
  A rust devil (Orc:4)
  A centaur zombie (D:15)
  4 black mambas
  2 spiny frogs
  An orange demon (Orc:4)
  2 kobold demonologists (D:13)
  A fire drake (Lair:4)
  A blue devil (Orc:4)
  A komodo dragon (Lair:8)
  8 polar bears
  7 merfolk
  A wind drake (Shoals:2)
  3 blink frogs
  9 snapping turtles
  15 yaks
  A deep elf mage (D:14)
  4 water elementals
  2 wraiths
  A neqoxec (Orc:4)
  A wyvern (Lair:7)
  2 basilisks
  3 vampire mosquitoes
  6 nagas (Snake:1)
  A warg (Orc:2)
  3 hippogriffs
  11 wolves
  A porcupine (Lair:7)
  6 orc warriors (Orc:4)
  2 water moccasins (Lair:7)
  A swamp drake (D:12)
  A centaur (D:15)
  An ice beast (D:13)
  A crocodile (Lair:8)
  4 giant frogs
  4 killer bees
  A crimson imp (D:13)
  A hound (D:14)
  4 orc priests (Orc:4)
  An orc wizard (Orc:4)
  3 sheep (Shoals:2)
  4 river rats
  An adder (Lair:4)
  17 orcs
  A bat (Orc:4)
  A goblin (Orc:2)
  A hobgoblin (Orc:2)
  4 kobolds
  A bush (Lair:5)
  5 fungi
  4 plants
260 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  An eldritch tentacle (Shoals:3)
  An orc (Orc:1)
  132 eldritch tentacle segments (Shoals:3)
  16 fungi
  11 plants
161 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 1482 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | hyperborean the Kobold Earth Elementalist began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 10/10 MP: 3/3
   393 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 15/15 MP: 3/5
   996 | D:2      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
   996 | D:2      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
   998 | D:2      | Reached skill level 4 in Earth Magic
   998 | D:2      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 17/19 MP: 4/6
  1117 | D:2      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
  1323 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 24/24 MP: 4/7
  1947 | D:3      | Reached skill level 5 in Earth Magic
  2266 | D:3      | Noticed Robin
  2278 | D:3      | Noticed jerkstore's ghost (average GrBe)
  2408 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 28/28 MP: 8/8
  2698 | D:3      | Killed Robin
  2779 | D:3      | Learned a level 3 spell: Stone Arrow
  3160 | D:3      | Found a stormy altar of Qazlal.
  3458 | D:4      | Reached skill level 6 in Earth Magic
  3605 | D:4      | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One.
  3928 | D:4      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 30/32 MP: 4/9
  4454 | D:4      | Reached skill level 7 in Earth Magic
  4776 | D:4      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 36/36 MP: 3/10
  4974 | D:4      | Noticed Pikel
  5049 | D:4      | Noticed a slave
  5054 | D:4      | Noticed a slave
  5057 | D:4      | Noticed a slave
  5298 | D:3      | Upgraded the game from 0.17-a0-1446-gc28613e to 0.17-a0-1447-g3d113ad
  5361 | D:4      | Reached skill level 8 in Earth Magic
  5764 | D:4      | Noticed a slave
  5781 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  6262 | D:5      | Found a glowing silver altar of Zin.
  6262 | D:5      | Found an opulent altar of Gozag.
  6398 | D:5      | Reached skill level 3 in Spellcasting
  6398 | D:5      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 37/41 MP: 12/12
  6563 | D:5      | Learned a level 5 spell: Lee's Rapid Deconstruction
  6756 | D:6      | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna.
  6759 | D:6      | Became a worshipper of Sif Muna the Loreminder
  7010 | D:6      | Reached skill level 4 in Spellcasting
  7010 | D:6      | Reached skill level 9 in Earth Magic
  7959 | D:7      | Acquired Sif Muna's first power
  8119 | D:7      | Noticed omnirizon's ghost (experienced CeGl)
  8441 | D:7      | Reached skill level 1 in Invocations
  8624 | D:7      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 30/45 MP: 2/16
  8827 | D:7      | Learned a level 4 spell: Petrify
  8857 | D:7      | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting
  9043 | D:7      | Reached skill level 2 in Invocations
  9149 | D:7      | Reached skill level 1 in Conjurations
  9307 | D:7      | Reached skill level 2 in Conjurations
  9440 | D:7      | Reached skill level 3 in Invocations
  9605 | D:8      | Noticed a troll
  9775 | D:7      | Reached skill level 10 in Earth Magic
  9894 | D:8      | Acquired Sif Muna's second power
  9982 | D:8      | Reached skill level 6 in Spellcasting
  9982 | D:8      | Reached skill level 4 in Invocations
 10108 | D:7      | Learned a level 2 spell: Stoneskin
 10150 | D:8      | Reached skill level 3 in Conjurations
 10314 | D:8      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 50/50 MP: 8/19
 10530 | D:8      | Killed a troll
 10897 | D:8      | Found a sacrificial altar of Ru.
 10947 | D:8      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
 10948 | D:8      | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet.
 10959 | D:8      | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
 11314 | D:9      | Reached skill level 1 in Staves
 11314 | D:9      | Reached skill level 4 in Conjurations
 11314 | D:9      | Reached skill level 5 in Invocations
 12199 | D:8      | Reached skill level 2 in Staves
 12502 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
 12611 | D:10     | Reached skill level 7 in Spellcasting
 12611 | D:10     | Reached skill level 6 in Invocations
 12617 | D:10     | Found a staircase to the Lair.
 12850 | D:10     | Reached skill level 5 in Conjurations
 12917 | D:9      | Reached skill level 3 in Staves
 13152 | D:10     | Reached XP level 11. HP: 54/54 MP: 10/21
 14342 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
 14518 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 7 in Invocations
 14545 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 4 in Staves
 15101 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 1 in Fighting
 15492 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 3 in Dodging
 15569 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 2 in Fighting
 15720 | Lair:1   | Noticed Spectrina's ghost (powerful FoTm)
 15992 | Lair:2   | Noticed a four-headed hydra
 16349 | Lair:2   | Killed a four-headed hydra
 16349 | Lair:2   | Acquired Sif Muna's third power
 16349 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 5 in Staves
 16349 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 8 in Spellcasting
 16981 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 3 in Fighting
 16981 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 4 in Dodging
 16982 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 8 in Invocations
 17170 | Lair:3   | Reached XP level 12. HP: 46/64 MP: 14/24
 17626 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 6 in Staves
 18021 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 4 in Fighting
 18021 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
 18051 | Lair:3   | Noticed a death yak
 18056 | Lair:3   | Noticed a death yak
 18058 | Lair:3   | Noticed a death yak
 18201 | Lair:3   | Noticed a death yak
 18201 | Lair:3   | Noticed a death yak
 18833 | Lair:3   | Noticed a five-headed hydra
 18914 | Lair:1   | Learned a level 1 spell: Apportation
 18916 | Lair:1   | Learned a level 1 spell: Summon Small Mammal
 18918 | Lair:1   | Learned a level 1 spell: Animate Skeleton
 19197 | Lair:2   | Killed a death yak
 19246 | Lair:2   | Killed a death yak
 19246 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 1 in Summonings
 20005 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
 20147 | Lair:3   | Killed a five-headed hydra
 20147 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 7 in Staves
 21016 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 8 in Staves
 22123 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 9 in Staves
 22164 | Lair:4   | Reached XP level 13. HP: 58/72 MP: 13/25
 22203 | Lair:4   | Found a staircase to the Shoals.
 22754 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 10 in Staves
 23229 | Lair:5   | Found a labyrinth entrance.
 23236 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 11 in Staves
 23258 | Lab      | Entered a labyrinth
 23769 | Lab      | Noticed NarcissusIII's ghost (powerful TrMo)
 24054 | Lab      | Noticed a minotaur
 24666 | Lair:5   | Found a staircase to the Snake Pit.
 25497 | Lair:6   | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits.
 25559 | Lair:6   | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
 25623 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 12 in Staves
 26868 | Lair:7   | Noticed Rupert
 26894 | Lair:8   | Entered Level 8 of the Lair of Beasts
 27169 | D:8      | Learned a level 3 spell: Passwall
 28095 | D:10     | Reached skill level 2 in Summonings
 28267 | D:11     | Reached XP level 14. HP: 76/78 MP: 26/26
 28319 | D:11     | Reached skill level 6 in Dodging
 28453 | D:11     | Noticed Psyche
 28457 | D:11     | Killed Psyche
 29226 | D:12     | Reached skill level 6 in Fighting
 29231 | D:12     | Noticed Fannar
 29259 | D:12     | Reached skill level 3 in Summonings
 29614 | D:12     | Reached skill level 7 in Dodging
 30214 | D:12     | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
 30422 | D:12     | Noticed Gastronok
 30482 | D:12     | Killed Gastronok
 30661 | Orc:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines
 30666 | Orc:1    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 30688 | Orc:1    | Reached skill level 4 in Summonings
 30963 | Orc:2    | Reached skill level 13 in Staves
 31100 | Orc:2    | Reached skill level 7 in Fighting
 31481 | Orc:3    | Noticed Snorg
 31513 | Orc:3    | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls.
 31575 | Orc:1    | Noticed Erolcha
 32403 | Orc:3    | Noticed Harold
 32418 | Orc:3    | Killed Harold
 32418 | Orc:3    | Reached skill level 8 in Dodging
 33020 | D:4      | Killed a slave
 33023 | D:4      | Killed Pikel
 33395 | D:7      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
 33748 | Orc:3    | Noticed an orc warlord
 33784 | Orc:3    | Killed Snorg
 34593 | Orc:4    | Entered Level 4 of the Orcish Mines
 34652 | Orc:4    | Reached skill level 5 in Summonings
 35229 | Orc:4    | Noticed Dynast's ghost (powerful CeGl)
 35522 | D:8      | Learned a level 5 spell: Shadow Creatures
 35694 | Lair:2   | Killed a death yak
 36081 | Lair:7   | Reached skill level 6 in Summonings
 36636 | Lair:7   | Reached skill level 7 in Summonings
 36636 | Lair:7   | Reached XP level 15. HP: 83/87 MP: 17/27
 37388 | Lair:3   | Killed a death yak
 37652 | D:8      | Learned a level 5 spell: Summon Demon
 38050 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 8 in Summonings
 38086 | Lair:1   | Killed a death yak
 38318 | D:8      | Learned a level 5 spell: Aura of Abjuration
 38663 | Orc:2    | Killed an orc warlord
 38663 | Orc:2    | Received a gift from Sif Muna
 38664 | Orc:2    | Identified Eciyt's Papyrus of Summoning (Sif Muna gifted it to you on level 2 of the Orcish Mines)
 39488 | Orc:4    | Reached skill level 9 in Summonings
 39558 | Orc:4    | Found Soschic's Food Shop.
 39561 | Orc:4    | Found Coc Fuid's Food Boutique.
 39932 | Orc:4    | Reached skill level 10 in Summonings
 40748 | Orc:4    | Reached skill level 8 in Fighting
 40776 | Orc:4    | Found Tuagraec's Book Emporium.
 40776 | Orc:4    | Found Feudeis's Antique Weapon Shoppe.
 40776 | Orc:4    | Found a one-way gate leading to the halls of Pandemonium.
 41708 | Orc:2    | Killed Erolcha
 41804 | Orc:2    | Your ally Erolcha died
 42146 | D:12     | Killed Fannar
 42146 | D:12     | Reached skill level 9 in Dodging
 42236 | D:12     | Found Exuor's General Store.
 42241 | D:12     | Bought a scroll of teleportation for 39 gold pieces
 42241 | D:12     | Bought a book of Battle for 520 gold pieces
 42241 | D:12     | Bought a scroll of recharging for 123 gold pieces
 42241 | D:12     | Bought a scroll of summoning for 123 gold pieces
 42477 | D:13     | Found a gate to the Vaults.
 42747 | D:13     | Reached skill level 9 in Spellcasting
 42784 | D:13     | Found a frozen archway.
 42973 | IceCv    | Entered an ice cave
 43436 | IceCv    | Noticed a frost giant
 43462 | IceCv    | Reached XP level 16. HP: 71/94 MP: 18/29
 43466 | IceCv    | Killed a frost giant
 44070 | D:13     | Identified a scroll of acquirement
 44439 | D:14     | Reached skill level 9 in Fighting
 44439 | D:14     | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging
 44515 | D:14     | Identified a -1 rod of inaccuracy (11/11) (You found it on level 14 of the Dungeon)
 44917 | D:14     | Reached skill level 11 in Summonings
 45481 | D:14     | Received a gift from Sif Muna
 45482 | D:14     | Identified Gozix's Incunabulum of Helpful Evil (Sif Muna gifted it to you on level 14 of the Dungeon)
 45621 | D:14     | Identified Estraxy's Reference Book on Feathery Combat Magic (You found it on level 14 of the Dungeon)
 45944 | D:15     | Entered Level 15 of the Dungeon
 46339 | D:15     | Reached skill level 10 in Spellcasting
 47003 | Lair:7   | Killed Rupert
 47003 | Lair:7   | Reached skill level 11 in Dodging
 47719 | Lair:8   | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting
 48178 | Lair:8   | Reached XP level 17. HP: 69/102 MP: 20/31
 48631 | D:12     | Learned a level 3 spell: Regeneration
 48634 | D:12     | Learned a level 2 spell: Shroud of Golubria
 48643 | D:12     | Upgraded the game from 0.17-a0-1447-g3d113ad to 0.17-a0-1450-g7e755d1
 48889 | Snake:1  | Entered Level 1 of the Snake Pit
 49113 | Shoals:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Shoals
 49813 | Shoals:1 | Reached skill level 1 in Necromancy
 49833 | Shoals:1 | Reached skill level 1 in Charms
 50452 | Shoals:2 | Reached skill level 12 in Summonings
 50633 | Shoals:2 | Reached skill level 2 in Necromancy
 51030 | Shoals:2 | Reached skill level 14 in Staves
 51462 | Shoals:3 | Reached skill level 2 in Charms
 51531 | Shoals:3 | Received a gift from Sif Muna
 51532 | Shoals:3 | Identified Sif Muna's Compendium of Clay and Changing (Sif Muna gifted it to you on level 3 of the Shoals)
 51621 | Shoals:3 | Reached skill level 3 in Necromancy
 52164 | Lair:1   | Killed Spectrina's ghost
 52165 | Lair:1   | Gained mutation: You are occasionally teleported to nearby monsters. [a neqoxec]
 52255 | Lair:5   | Lost mutation: You are occasionally teleported to nearby monsters. [potion of cure mutation]
 52587 | D:15     | Reached skill level 12 in Dodging
 52802 | D:15     | Found a staircase to the Depths.
 52890 | D:15     | Reached skill level 11 in Fighting
 53072 | D:15     | Reached skill level 11 in Spellcasting
 53719 | Snake:1  | Reached skill level 3 in Charms
 53889 | Snake:1  | Reached skill level 4 in Necromancy
 54121 | Snake:1  | Reached XP level 18. HP: 76/110 MP: 15/33


Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Dagger            |       |       |   252 |    19 |     5 |       ||   276
       Lajatang          |       |       |       |   538 |  1154 |   741 ||  2433
       Staff             |       |       |       |       |    58 |    45 ||   103
 Fire: Hunting sling     |       |   201 |    96 |       |       |       ||   297
       Blowgun           |       |       |       |       |    34 |     5 ||    39
Throw: Stone             |     6 |       |       |       |       |       ||     6
 Cast: Sandblast         |    32 |    68 |    24 |     7 |    38 |       ||   169
       Stone Arrow       |       |       |    26 |   248 |   213 |    91 ||   578
       Lee's Rapid Decon |       |       |    11 |    53 |   191 |    95 ||   350
       Stoneskin         |       |       |     1 |    20 |    31 |    17 ||    69
       Petrify           |       |       |       |    13 |    39 |       ||    52
       Summon Small Mamm |       |       |       |     9 |     3 |       ||    12
       Animate Skeleton  |       |       |       |     4 |   163 |   102 ||   269
       Shadow Creatures  |       |       |       |       |    69 |   108 ||   177
       Passwall          |       |       |       |       |     5 |     2 ||     7
       Summon Demon      |       |       |       |       |    56 |    58 ||   114
       Aura of Abjuratio |       |       |       |       |     2 |     1 ||     3
       Regeneration      |       |       |       |       |       |    42 ||    42
       Shroud of Golubri |       |       |       |       |       |    12 ||    12
Invok: Channel Energy    |       |       |    18 |   247 |   517 |   350 ||  1132
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |       |     2 |     4 |       ||     6
  Use: Scroll            |       |     7 |     4 |    13 |    20 |    16 ||    60
       Potion            |       |     1 |     3 |     3 |     5 |     9 ||    21
 Stab: Sleeping          |       |       |     5 |     7 |     9 |     6 ||    27
       Distracted        |       |       |       |     1 |    11 |    18 ||    30
       Fleeing           |       |       |       |       |     3 |       ||     3
       Paralysed         |       |       |       |       |       |     1 ||     1
  Eat: Chunk             |     9 |    13 |    26 |   106 |   257 |   118 ||   529
       Beef jerky        |       |       |       |       |     2 |     3 ||     5
       Meat ration       |       |       |       |       |     2 |       ||     2
       Pizza             |       |       |       |       |     2 |     6 ||     8


[tasonir]

Aura of abjuration has less power per turn, but with decent summoning skill (even just 10 seems to work fine with decent int, maybe slightly more with low int) it will take out just about anything in 2 turns, which is fast enough imho. It is somewhat harder to guarantee abjuring that deadly fiend in one shot, though.

With the removal of sickness on haunt, what are the remaining ways to get sickness? that was the last one I knew of - is sickness removed now?

[Jeremiah]

Wretched stars or something else in the abyss?

Edit: actually I mean ancient zymes.

[ajon]

Just getting back after a break. What is the reasoning behind invis waking enemies up more often?

[duvessa]

"invis is too good"