How would a race that's the opposite of a Demigod play?

[bcadren]

This is a really simple race proposal that I'd like to see tried, though I have no idea if it'd actually be a fun race. The idea is really good aptitudes and levels extremely quickly, but the worst base stats in the game by a long shot. Simple, no gimmicks race that I'd like to see how would play.

Gnoll:

Aptitudes:

  Code:

Gn: Fighting: 2, Short: 2, Long: 2!, Axes: 2, Maces: 2, Polearms: 2, Staves: 2!, Slings: 2, Bows: 2, Xbows: 2!, Throw: 2, Armour: 2!, Dodge: 2, Stealth: 2, Shields: 2!, UC: 2!, Splcast: 2, Conj: 2, Hexes: 2, Charms: 2, Summ: 2!, Nec: 2!, Tloc: 2, Tmut: 2, Fire: 2!, Ice: 2!, Air: 2, Earth: 2, Poison: 2, Inv: 2, Evo: 2, Exp: 2!, HP: -2, MP: -2*

Attributes:

• STR: 2
• INT: 2
• DEX: 2
• Gains one random STR/INT/DEX every 5 levels.

Example Start Attributes:

• GnSk: 6/6/6
• GnBe: 11/1/6
• GnWz: 1/12/5
• GnIE: 2/9/7

Weirdness/Mutations:

• Drain Immunity - Immune to Attribute Draining (Brain Feed, etc.) and MP draining (Ghost Moths, etc.)

[Zchris13]

so basically humans

[Lasty]

My guess is that these are probably a pretty weak race, because low stats means low defenses, and -2 hp isn't a walk in the park, but might be interesting to try.

I'd remove ghost moth mp draining immunity, since it's both narrow and feels out of place. I'm not a fan of complete attribute draining immunity since it does remove one consequence of low stats; sustain abilities would be a little more interesting in that you'd still be at risk from heavy sources of stat drain. Having no protection from stat drain at all might be even more interesting, since you'd actually have to worry about it, unlike almost all other characters.

If you feel like coding up this species, I'd be interested to try it out in an experimental branch.

[Arrhythmia]

why don't they have something like +faith? being "better at gods" is what immediately comes to mind when i imagine the opposite of the race that's worst at gods

[Sandman25]

https://loom.shalott.org/learndb.html#lacertilian

[bcadren]

@Arrhythmia: I didn't want to overlap Lacertilians (race with Permafaith and no wrath). Permafaith with normal wrath could be ok, though.

@Lasty: I might do that; I'd ask for help, but there's already a guide available to follow, so I'll use that.

I put in the innate stat drain immunity for two reasons:

1. Concern that early Brain Worms or Neqoxecs or the unique Norris would have smite-targeted paralysis for Berserkers (1 Int), Gladiators (2) and Fighters (2).
2. Concern that extended would literally be impossible (Mummy Death Curse Stat Drain; Effects of Hell Stat Drain; -Stat Mutations (can actually set base stat below 0, in this case); and amount of stat draining creatures in Mnoleg Pan and Abyss.)

[bel]

If the only disadvantage of this race is low stats, taking Chei would fix that, while keeping the rest of the advantages. Kind of like DD with Makhleb.

[duvessa]

GnTh of chei

[tasonir]

It wouldn't fix the -20% hp, although transmutations could fix that. Another race saved by statue form!

Aside from that, I wanted to point out that Gnoll berserkers would NOT start with 1 int: any stat under 3 is automatically raised to three (I don't recall it if takes it always from the highest stat, or picks randomly from the other two, but you lose another stat for each point of int you need). This currently only happens to ghoul berserkers as far as I know, but there may be one or two more combos that would otherwise have a stat at 2 or less. Several gnoll backgrounds would have this readjustment as the race is written above.

You may have figured out how to get 2 UC into the game! You have my eternal gratitude if it makes it.

[duvessa]

and to answer the question in the title: badly

[tasonir]

and to answer the question in the title: badly

Badly as in unfun/frustrating, or badly as in low power? I think it'd be low power primarily for the -20% hp, although having low EV and trouble with heavy armors would also be a hinderance. Having 2 for the EXP aptitude will help offset the -20% hp somewhat, but only slightly. It would definitely be a below average power race, but it is of course still winnable. Note that demigods only have +10% hp, so making this race -10% hp would go a long way towards making them more survivable.

[WingedEspeon]

How about intrinsic faith but 50-100% MORE wrath for leaving, kind of like amulet of faith punishes you for removing it. -1 hp apt is also probably a good idea.

[all before]

The hard part of the game would be harder and the easy part easier.

[Pollen_Golem]

why don't they have something like +faith? being "better at gods" is what immediately comes to mind when i imagine the opposite of the race that's worst at gods

Actually, I thought bcarden was going for a species that was forbidden from following religion, like Demigods, but taken in a diametrically opposite direction. That is, better skilling and worse stats, rather than worse skilling and better stats.

Here's an alternative take on Gn, what do you think?

Base stats: 0 str, 0 int, 0 dex
No extra species-specific stat gains
Backgrounds don't adjust stats to ensure at least 3 in everything
Cannot follow any god
All aptitudes are +2, invocations are untrainable
While Gn has no particular resistance to stat drain, it has innate immunity to stat-zero effects. The game simply continues to calculate all relevant numbers using negative values, without the stat-zero special-casing. For example, encumberance penalty from armor gets worse and worse if your strength gets drained further into the negatives. Nonpositive intelligence sets your spell power to zero, but blink/AS/AD/cBlink/etc can work fine even at -10 int. And so on.

[bcadren]

From talking with Lasty about this; the decision was (if/when I implement it) the paralysis and slowing portion of stat death is ignored; but the further effects play as normal.

• STR of 0 vastly slows your HP regeneration.
• INT of 0 means no spells and 80% chance to fail at reading scrolls.
• DEX of 0 means, no stealth (like you're berserking) and no natural EV (rings, etc. still work).

In short; it's not fatal, but it's pretty bad.

[bcadren]

I'm coding this now; or trying to. never used C++ before and...there are a lot of files (622 source files).

[Lasty]

You won't need all 622 files, happily -- as a starting point, try searching for every instance of a relatively normal race (e.g. (SP_HUMAN|[Hh]uman)); you'll almost certainly need to make changes everywhere that comes up.

[Arrhythmia]

Alternatively, find a commit here that adds a species and try to mimic it.

[rockygargoyle]

Vine Stalkers: http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a= ... aa2985d36b
Formicids: http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a= ... afa7eb7ed5
And Gargoyles (AKA Grotesk): http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a= ... 19a5b9fa0c