The Tavern

for some reasons, now dcss emphasizes the importance of dex.
buff strengh, and nerf dex.

Str is already important for anyone wearing heavy armour.

Yeah I haven't done the math, but I generally only ever stat Dex on really heavily strength, really anti magic guys like Mi and Tr. On mages I go int till about 20 then str, on everyone else I go pure int.

OP is correct... dex > str

Let me illustrate correct stat allocation in a flow chart:

Code:: ---------- dex < 24? ------------ | S/I/D? | ------------------------>| D! D! D! | ---------- ------------ | | dex > 24? | V ------ | D? | ------

With different characters it's optimal to increase different stat, do you want to make Str always be better than Dex? Why? To start complaining that Dex is always worse than Str and should be buffed?

mps wrote:OP is correct... dex > str

Let me illustrate correct stat allocation in a flow chart:

Code:
---------- dex < 24? ------------ | S/I/D? | ------------------------>| D! D! D! | ---------- ------------ | | dex > 24? | V ------ | D? | ------

Do you care to share your data, to show where you came up with this flowchart? I disagree with your findings, but without knowing the data you based it off of, it's hard to say which of us is incorrect.

dowan wrote:Do you care to share your data, to show where you came up with this flowchart? I disagree with your findings, but without knowing the data you based it off of, it's hard to say which of us is incorrect.

I guess it was a spell-less character who found CPA with Str 15 and is now considering putting bonus points into Dex/Int

I generally put my points into int because I already have 30str/30dex. Int is the one most useful in extreme amounts (> 30), and I #LiveExtremeLiveChei.

Honestly I'd say strength is fairly good now, not every character needs it, but not every character needs int either. Berserkers might be a smaller % of combos than the ones that don't care about strength (robe/mottled dragon casters), but they're both fairly small groups. Most characters will need some amount of str, some amount of int, and get as much dex as possible after they have str/int at a good spot. If you're going for big spells then you put dex at a good point and the rest into int, but this is a minor difference.

My point is that almost all melee based characters tend to raise Dex or Int, and in most cases it's a correct choice.
Raise str, very very few cases.
It's not fun for me.

Usually I aim for 24 dex and then take strength on most races. This is because the contribution to evasion from dex hits a stepdown at 24. I never take int unless I am using Vehumet or Sif. As far as I know, 2 strength roughly corresponds to 1 slaying, so it is not that horrible of a choice.

radinms wrote:My point is that almost all melee based characters tend to raise Dex or Int, and in most cases it's a correct choice.
Raise str, very very few cases.
It's not fun for me.

Did you miss my message? Most characters in CPA/GDA are melee characters and most of them want Str over Dex/Int.

I recently had a VpMo that took some level up points into into strength to more easily wear PDA, although this is mostly because VpMo has very high int for a typical melee character, and my randart PDA and ring with rF+++ both had dex+4 so I already had 31 Dex...

at low str race, obviously shouldn't wear CPA/GDA.
at high str race, usually raise dex even if wearing CPA/GDA.

at medium str race, i don't usually wear CPA/GDA.
In my experience, medium str race should wear medium armour such as FDA and raise dex.
-this is my point. now dcss has medium dragon armours( "HEAVY" AC AND "LIGHT" enc)

Actually, who raise str at medium str race for wearing GDA?

9 bonus points allow to make low str race be medium str race and medium str race be high str race.

Here I used low str race to wear GDA.
I found the GDA in a shop on D9 so I put all remaining points into Str.

radinms wrote:at low str race, obviously shouldn't wear CPA/GDA.
at high str race, usually raise dex even if wearing CPA/GDA.

at medium str race, i don't usually wear CPA/GDA.
In my experience, medium str race should wear medium armour such as FDA and raise dex.
-this is my point. now dcss has medium dragon armours( "HEAVY" AC AND "LIGHT" enc)

Actually, who raise str at medium str race for wearing GDA?

Actually, I am afraid that you are talking too much about your experience.

Heavy armour significantly penalizes gains from dodging, where penalty is determined from encumbrance and STR. This actually means that increasing STR might rise your EV at a rate faster than DEX could.

A good rule of thumb is to raise strength until it is at least equal to the encumbrance of body armour. After this point, dex/str choice depends on how much dodging one is willing to get. I recommend playing with this calculator to see the outcomes:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

So far I wrote only about impact on EV. Some other factors to take into account:
- Weapon damage and accuracy is affected by DEX/STR. Some transmutations calculate dmg based on STR. In general, STR increases your damage much more than dex.
- SH value depends on the size of a shield and DEX/STR values. Large shield obviously benefits more from STR, small one - from DEX.
- Spellcasting penalty from body armour depends on STR. There is no benefit from taking DEX in that matter.
- DEX increases your stealth.

The Tavern

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