god that gifts consumables


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Post Sunday, 14th June 2015, 01:24

god that gifts consumables

Consumables are powerful but have no reliable way of replenishing, unlike most other things like HP, MP, food, piety, and decontamination. They tend to go underused on powerful characters, and overused to the point of running out on weak characters. Their scarcity also means that their effect is hard to judge for an unspoiled player. This leaves a niche for a god that grants you lots of consumables. Of course, you would have to become much weaker generally, for balance, and to actually have a need for more consumables. I logically arrived at the following sketch of a god that weakens you through mutations, but the mechanic can be something else I haven't though of. Upon reflection, this god's arc would mirror Xom's: you end up with a terrible mutation set instead of a good one, and have more consumables left over instead of using them all up on escaping divine dickery. If Jiyva isn't redundant, neither is this one.
Nizmox the Grotesque
Gifts consumables - potions, scrolls, wands, miscellaneous, food.
Frequently malmutates the player, bypassing any source of mutation resistance.
"Protects" you from the effect of rMut equipment and potions of cure mutation.
Gives piety for killing clean beings, which means most enemies.
'a' ability: degeneration. Attempts to polymorph all monsters in LOS.
'b' ability: chaos cloud. Place clouds of seething chaos at a smite-targeted location.
Punishment for leaving: "upgrades" your current mutation set to "innate" status.
Wrath: periodically inflicts contamination, or spawns clouds of chaos centered on you.

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Post Sunday, 14th June 2015, 01:33

Re: god that gifts consumables

More consumables isn't nearly powerful enough a benefit to counterbalance a long set of bad mutations. Running out of consumables of a certain type is a somewhat rare occurrence that usually doesn't change the game too much, therefore preventing you from running out of consumables is not very powerful. The abilities are fairly weak too, considering clouds of chaos could have a beneficial effect on the enemy.
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mps

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Post Sunday, 14th June 2015, 01:59

Re: god that gifts consumables

Gifts that allow you to burn consumables constantly would allow you to play more aggressively, which is a good thing imo, but I agree w/ berder that there's not a pressing need to replenish consumables in a typical game. A god like this wouldn't need to actively screw the player to be well-balanced.
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Post Sunday, 14th June 2015, 02:07

Re: god that gifts consumables

What do you mean consumables aren't enough to counterbalance bad mutations? Imagine if you had unlimited controlled blinking, permanent might/agility/brilliance, unlimited wand zaps, and a little more acquirement - I think that would override any set of bad mutations (except Degeneration, maybe the god should protect you from stat loss) so gift frequency would determine whether the god is under-powered or over-powered. The abilities are really optional, you could have durable ugly thing and shapeshifter allies that morph on command, it doesn't matter and just goes with the malmutation theme. Current gods have powers many players never use. I just don't think Xom should be dethroned as the single god without piety or equivalent that can be accumulated. The god should debilitate you enough to make the "typical game" not so typical.

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Post Sunday, 14th June 2015, 03:17

Re: god that gifts consumables

There already are gods that give you dozens of armor/weapon acquirements per game and they don't malmut you. I know exactly what it would be like to have unlimited controlled blinking. It'd be like having the controlled blink spell. Good wand zaps are already pretty limitless w/ recharge scrolls. More charges of wands that aren't already recharge-worthy don't seem like they'd add a lot of value. For other consumables, I tend to end games with quite a lot left. That's not to say it wouldn't change the way I play if I knew I wouldn't run out, I just don't think it's worth malmuts + not worshipping another god.

Now that ctele is gone the world of spells and items, it might make a good god ability. A god that dumps scrolls and potions on you and has a ctele invocation might make a good speedrunning god.
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Post Sunday, 14th June 2015, 03:54

Re: god that gifts consumables

mps wrote: I just don't think it's worth malmuts + not worshipping another god.

You're still thinking of consumables as items to handle emergencies or tough parts, meaning you use them rarely enough that you generally don't run out. But this is a god that should practically force you to rely on consumables on a regular basis. And you don't need to learn haste, bolt spells, controlled blink, shadow critters, etc. And I don't know what "it's worth" means, which can be whimsically said of half the gods. First you imply that malmut is so very bad, then imply you'd still play pretty much the same way and end up with consumables aplenty - huh? Also if attacks wands don't add a lot of value, why is the rod of lightning, which fires maybe 4 bolts before dying, so much more valuable than the wand of lightning?

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Post Sunday, 14th June 2015, 04:41

Re: god that gifts consumables

No, I'm not. I'm totally entertaining the idea of having all the consumables I want, hence "play more aggressively." What I'm saying is that if I don't need more consumables to win, I sure as hell don't want a god that gimps me so that I need them. When I look at my own post-midgame deaths, like half involve malmuts. Malmuts ain't no joke. Especially when some of them damage your ability to use the items this god is supposed to give you...

It's true, though, that the main downside of most gods is opportunity cost, viz. not worshipping another god, and it's not whimsical to say so, imo.

re: lightning rods, their mechanics are not the same as wands of lightning. Idk, I think you already get a ton of wands as it stands and you can use them pretty freely and not run out before they become outclassed by threats and other items. Personally, I barely use them. I probably use less than 5% of the charges available to me on wands and my feel is that most other players are similar. I carry them because sometimes you need that extra something, but I'm never worried about running out of charges.
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Post Sunday, 14th June 2015, 07:21

Re: god that gifts consumables

We already have a god who does this. His name is Gozag, and his ability is compensated by the fact that there are built in limitations on access to potion petition and shops based on gold generated in game (and number of floors for shops).

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mps

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Post Sunday, 14th June 2015, 07:30

Re: god that gifts consumables

Actually, you can still buy shops when you've explored all the levels shops can spawn on. Then they spawn where you're standing, i.e. where they should always spawn.
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Post Sunday, 14th June 2015, 07:36

Re: god that gifts consumables

mps wrote:Actually, you can still buy shops when you've explored all the levels shops can spawn on. Then they spawn where you're standing, i.e. where they should always spawn.


Ah. Let me revise my statement then.

We already have a god that fills the exact niche you want filled, and can fill other roles as well. I wouldn't say Gozag's design doesn't have room for improvement, but if you want to swim in potions, wands / gadgets and scrolls, he's an option.

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Post Sunday, 14th June 2015, 16:30

Re: god that gifts consumables

OP is poorly sketched out. Moved to CYC.
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Post Tuesday, 16th June 2015, 03:23

Re: god that gifts consumables

When designing something like a god you have to consider "Will that power granted by worshipping this god be around the same as the power granted by other gods", not "will worshipping this god give power in line with not worshipping a god". We already have Xom for the challenge god that is worse than no god.
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duvessa

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Post Tuesday, 16th June 2015, 15:30

Re: god that gifts consumables

Xom is mostly better than no god.
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Post Tuesday, 16th June 2015, 17:19

Re: god that gifts consumables

Lasty wrote:Xom is mostly better than no god.

Perhaps, but Xom can also kill you. Worshipping Xom (especially in the early game) is taking a risk of an unavoidable death. In that sense worshipping no god is safer.
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Post Tuesday, 16th June 2015, 18:04

Re: god that gifts consumables

Sure; Xom mostly makes things easier and sometimes makes things harder. It's a net positive, but the worst-case scenario is definitely worse than no god.

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Post Tuesday, 16th June 2015, 22:44

Re: god that gifts consumables

xom is generally worse than no god in the part of the game that matters, imo

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Post Tuesday, 16th June 2015, 22:53

Re: god that gifts consumables

If your normal win rate is 99%, Xom makes it worse.

If your normal win rate is 1%, well, you probably only win with Trog anyway, but Xom is certainly better than Nogod.

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