New god: Anti-Trog

[Sandman25]

Trog provides great abilities for melee and prevents spellcasting, this god provides great abilities for casting and discourages melee.

Anti-Trog gives piety for killing monsters, double for those who cannot cast spells and quadruple for those with antimagic effects (Lorocyproca etc). Anti-Trog excommunicates for using antimagic weapon.


Abilities:
Piety level -:
Protection from Silence, passive - you have 20%-80% chance (depending on piety) to cast while under silence effect.
Melee penalty, passive - every attack with melee weapon decreases your current HP and MP by 1.
Protection From Abjuration, passive - Abjurations cast against your servants are 20% less effective.
Destroy antimagic weapon, active - Praying over antimagic weapon destroys the weapon and gives piety.

Piety level *:
Meditate, active, no piety, exhaustion - your spells have 50% chance to cost 0 MP, you spend 0.66 turn to cast a spell. If you kill a monster while meditating, you get 1-2 MP and also a Piety/10% chance of adding 4-13 more turns to your meditation duration. (The bonuses do not apply if you killed the monster with melee).
After end of meditation, you are exhausted. As long as you are exhausted, you don't regenerate MP and any non-magic attack (melee/launcher/wand/rod etc.) decreases your current HP by 10%.

Piety level **:
Anti-Trog's Hand, active, 2-3 piety - your get extra 1-2 MP per turn, you get +10 AC, all hostile monsters in LoS get HD decreased by 3 for magical effects which check HD.

Piety level ****:
Mages in Arms, active, 5-6 piety - summons a powerful meditating ally (0.66 turn per cast like with player), the species of which depends on piety. At low piety levels (****), you get Ogre Magi, Orc Sorcerer or Deep Elf Conjurer, while at high levels (***** or ******) you get Fire Giant, Frost Giant, Titan. They are always friendly. Their meditation can expire, although this usually occurs only shortly before they time out. It has a high rate of failure, but this falls as piety rises. If it fails, nothing happens: you don't lose piety.

Anti-Trog gifts:
Piety 81+:
scrolls of immolation, scrolls of fog, scrolls of fear, potion of brilliance, potion of magic

Piety 130+:
books, rings of fire/ice/wizardry, staffs of fire/cold/air/earth/wizardry, -2 robe of archmagi.

Punishments:
Hostile groups of Silence Specters, Flayed Ghosts, Fiends, Hellion/Hell Sentinel (at least 4 monsters, at least 1 from each group).

The idea is that pure casters should be able to play as recklessly as Berserkers do - see some monsters, invoke Anti-Trog's Hand, Meditate and have fun. Don't forget to retreat or to make sure there are no survivors when meditation ends because your MP don't regenerate and you lose health for non-magic attacks while you are exhausted. Berserking is also a bad idea because it ends with the same exhaustion status.

Edit. Modified based on feedback from Sar, dpeg, tasonir, Berder and mps.

[Sar]

antitrog's hand should also reduce your MR. or enemy MR. or both

[dpeg]

This god ain't complete without a mirror image to book burning.

[Sandman25]

I considered destroying antimagic weapons by praying but then thought that similar ability was removed from Ely for a reason.

[Sandman25]

antitrog's hand should also reduce your MR. or enemy MR. or both

Both would be the best indeed, It is a god of magic, it should be more powerful with Magic Resistance.

[tasonir]

I was writing up a half-baked anti trog idea while you were posting this, so I'll move it here:

CYC-level halfbaked anti-trog:

Spell surge - cast spells at 5 auts (finesse level power!), gain 10 max/current mana, +5 int. When it wears off (~5-10 turns), lose the 10 current mana, exhaust, slow). If not too technically challenging, I'd love to see it put you at negative mana, although I don't think this is currently supported.

Ley line - 1mana/sec regen effect with +5 ac for 10-15 turns.

Divine Servitor - Probably want to rename this to not sound just like the spell version, but basically summons a divine version of spellforged servitor, who comes with a list of god spells to copy (ie, you don't have to have them memorized yourself). Spells could either be ones that already exist, or are unique to the god.

Appreciates kills and the saccing of anti-magic weapons. (not tedious because non-trog games probably generate like 2 of these the whole game )

Comes with its own challenge conduct: win a game where you switch from Trog to anti-Trog, or vice versa. Must champion each god at least, some other criteria for when you're allowed to switch (after 1st rune?) could be set.

Shares a fair amount of similarities with your proposal. One thing that I really think anti-trog shouldn't do is give +mr or -enemy MR with anti-trog's hand. Trog protects you against magic, anti-trog should protect you from physical damage: +5 ac. Sure, ac does technically protect you from fireballs as well, but it's associated with physical damage and it's fine. If it's too strong +3 ac is fine too.

Your spell berserk gives a lot more mana, but hey that's fine. Not sure why we need protection from abjuration, I think that's more of TSO's thing. And 20% isn't that dramatic to begin with.

If you want some sort of melee penalty, I'd probably do something like a -slay which grows with piety, say piety/20 so you get -10 slay in the end. Although if he's gifting things, you may only see up to around -7/-8 slaying. Hurting yourself and draining your mana is just odd and probably too harsh - while you'll be bad with weapons, at least it's theoretically possible that you might attack to kill something easy with -slay. This shouldn't be a hard limit, imho.

Scroll gifts seem terrible to me, I hardly ever use those, even though I probably should. They don't really say magic to me, though, I'd rather just see the enhancer gifts, maybe some books, if that doesn't bother sif muna too much. Maybe anti-trog could gift manuals of only magic skills? If you want to gift consumables, gift potions of brilliance, magic, and ambrosia? Maybe too strong, but hey.

[mps]

Good idea, except these should be sif abilities...

**: Trance -- all spell schools with nontrivial existing skill investment and spellcasting get +5 for duration.

*****: Meditation -- as in OP, but just remove spell hunger and subtract some fixed number, say 4, from all mana costs for duration instead of extra MP.

In other words, sif --> okawaru for magic users.

p.s.: o/

[Pollen_Golem]

As long as you are exhausted, you don't regenerate MP and any non-magic attack (melee/launcher/wand/rod etc.) decreases your current HP by 10%.

Huh? Afterberserk doesn't do that. Just slow the player and prevent re-meditating.

You should also make many actions impossible while meditating:

  Code:

You don't have enough magic points to cast that spell.
You're too meditated!!!
You're too meditated!!!
You're too meditated!!!

And just hurry up and call this god Gort already.

[Berder]

I'm in favor. We need more magic gods. I suggested something like this once: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=14772

Gort:
Bans melee!
* ability: Epiphany - the inverse of berserk. Grants haste + brilliance + 50% greater MP for a while, then causes exhaustion, slow and sometimes paralysis afterwards. Prevents all actions except spellcasting and walking.
** ability: Gort's foot - provides 1 mp/turn mp regeneration and +10 AC for a number of turns depending on piety
**** ability: Coven - summons a spellcaster of type depending on piety such as a deep elf conjurer on up to a deep elf demonologist. The summon is given the Epiphany status.
Gort grants gifts of magical staves, sometimes randart staves.

[Pollen_Golem]

Gort:
Bans melee!
* ability: Epiphany
** ability: Gort's foot
**** ability:

...Sisters in Legs??

[Sandman25]

After berserk melee character still can use melee unlimitedly vs popcorn, we cannot have anything like that with spells so I made the penalties harsher to make it clear that player should be more careful.

Edit. I updated OP, +10 AC, 50% chance to get free spells, potions as gifts.

[Rast]

And just hurry up and call this god Gort already.

But there's already a god name starting with "G". Whatever shall we do?

[Berder]

And just hurry up and call this god Gort already.

But there's already a god name starting with "G". Whatever shall we do?

The Shining One / Sif Muna / Trog
There is precedent.

[tasonir]

And just hurry up and call this god Gort already.

But there's already a god name starting with "G". Whatever shall we do?

The Shining One / Sif Muna / Trog
There is precedent.

You mean 1, S and T? No conflict. Is Gort going to be I?

[Pollen_Golem]

If 1 is allowed, make gort G, shift gozag to $. If necessary, Veh, Ru, Chei, Nem, Ash, and Xom can be made +, -, ~, !, ?, and (*0*).

[CanOfWorms]

Gort should clearly be ⊥.

[pickled_heretic]

I was thinking "wow gort is a retarded name for a magic god that is anti-trog" and then I realized...

[duvessa]

Anit-Cheribdos Diety - Like the killing of slower creatures, promotes the use of quickblades, branded speed weapons, and boots of running. Dislikes the use of any slowing rods/spells on anything, amulets of stasis, use of ponderous equipment, and resting (lose 1 piety every 25 turns while resting).
Abilities: Speeds up metabolism and regeneration with piety. Reduces action time as piety increases (max reduction 0.2 turns).
Reckless Charge - Dashes towards a target at a rapid pace dealing extra damage per tile traveled and comparative size. Max Range = 4 tiles, can miss, next round of creature melee/range attacks can deal extra damage. Cost - Hunger, 4 mp, piety, exhaustion
Stab and Run - Attack an adjacent target and move once space away from it. Can make a creature swap tiles with you if there is one in the retreat space. Cost - minor hunger, 2mp
1000 blades - A random and unfocused attack that randomly strikes adjacent tiles. Number of attacks range from 100 to 1000. Each strike does only 1 damage. Cost - Hunger, 10mp, piety

Let me know what you like, dislike, and any possible suggestions on developing these ideas further.

[and into]

You get bookgifts with this god by praying when fire clouds are in LOS.

[WingedEspeon]

and resting (lose 1 piety every 25 turns while resting).

This leads to scummy behavior like moving back and forth to regain HP/MP.

[duvessa]

This leads to scummy behavior like moving back and forth to regain HP/MP.

Your comments are very uninteresting, unhelpful and destructive. The archer diety has no high power damage like Slouch (which can be considered game breaking). It has some decent escape defence abilities and some helpful attacks. Do you think short term paralysis is overpowered even if creatures can resist it? Do you think the random moving of adjacent creatures will save you from the elven armies at the bottom of the elven halls? The only real overpowered one would be the Anti-Cheribdos, but even the damage of the 1000 blades (as unpredictable as it could be) is nowhere near the power of Slouch.

I want constructive advice that promotes creativity, not dismissal and outright stubborn rejection.

[Sar]

Source?

[duvessa]

https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=7164

[Sprucery]

Man, it's getting hard to follow this forum if you have to do searches all the time to see if a comment was a replay from an old thread...

[Sar]

well when the comment has barely anything to do with the rest of the thread the only options we have is that either minmay has completely snapped or it's a post copied from somewhere else

[Hirsch I]

minmay has completely snapped

this is always my first assumption.